Evolution of design

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Evolution of design

Post by Mystic2000 » Wed May 14, 2014 1:56 pm

Maybe i could do that with Golden Blaze, not really sure...

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Evolution of design

Post by That Kode Guy » Fri Jan 30, 2015 11:05 pm

Why am I doing the majority of these? Where's everyone else? :v: Whatever, I'm bored and have no life so fuck it.

Believe it or not, Tellu has had quite the history. So I suppose you could hardly call her "new". But here's kinda where she comes from.

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That's Intrigue. All the bots in this line until Tellu (unless FRA becomes active again) had the word Intrigue in it, or most of the word. I guess by current ARC standards it's not... bad, per se, but it ain't champ material, no way. It was definitely champ material on the other forum though, it won one tournament just like that, and was a runner-up in another. And yes, they were both majors. Those reasons are the only ones why I decided to continue the line, because of dumb successes like those. :P

Design-wise, it's nothing to write home about. It could hit on both sides, but neither of its ends were particularly strong. I kind of modelled this thing after Biohazard and Terrorhurtz.

Okay, we've had the good. Here's the bad and the ugly all at once:

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Intriguing. Yeah, intriguing that I ever came up with this shit in the first place. I got so much shit for this design that I never ended up using it. Too big, bulky, the scoops wouldn't get under shit, and dear god what the fuck was going on with the sides. Now I can't even remember... or what inspired this crap pile in the first place. Ugh.

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Hurray regression! This is Intriguer. It was pretty much the first robot with only one business end. This time however it was definitely stronger at the front. I'm not sure where I got the idea for the forks. Probably Panic Attack. Again, this one got me some decent success, though it never repeated a championship in this guise.

Here's the one that did.

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Intriguous. Dunno where the "-uous" part came from. Boxy as shit. Invertible. Double-sided axe. Black and green. Well, colour me skeptical. That is... well, until this thing managed to win arguably one of the most prestigious tourneys on FRA: SteveMcG's PTT: Regeneration. I still don't have any how or why, but I took it. Yoinks! Oh, and you'll love this one, Josh: its record was 5-0, which was pretty much the same record for an undefeated bot in the old CFRC tourneys. :v: So you could slot this poor thing right next to Cow Tipper. :v:

I dunno what inspired the design. Some sort of Storm II/Killerhurtz/The Judge horror, no doubt. :v:

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Anyone want to guess where those wedges came from? Anybody? :v:

Intriguality. Stayed pretty much the same other than the wedges. I went hog-wild with the flair aspects, though. That's why it looks so silly. :v: Success? None, it has no wins and rightfully so.

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First Tellu. You've all seen this in the mini-tourn, and if you check my render thread. (which I won't blame you if you don't) The side of the wedge was inspired by a lot of the ones Martijn has done over the years, but it was too small and not equipped for fighting spinners. Also the back skirts I suppose dissuade trying to get at the sides, but they are mostly there to look cool. :v:

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Current Tellu iter. Yeah that's a Dr. P wedge. Big whoop, wanna fight about it? Still, if she's gotten to the semis of a Spatula tournament I must be doing something right.

I'm not sure where to go after this. I guess I could try making Tellu invertible again and fiddling with the wedge a bit more. Case in point; Tellu's taking a break after Robot Bastards and letting SZF and Cutie Honey represent Team Covenant at the HWs. And shit like Mass Hypnosis and Seras surely have fight left in them as well... rest assured, though.

She'll be back.
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Evolution of design

Post by GF93 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:02 am

Interesting to see how Tellu's design evolved over time, I must say. Although with regards to Intriguing...

...without trying to be offensive about it, it's almost like some Frankenstein's Monster of a robot. :v:
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Evolution of design

Post by That Kode Guy » Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:56 am

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>GF93</dt><dd>Jan 31 2015, 12:02 AM</dd></dl><div>...without trying to be offensive about it, it's almost like some Frankenstein's Monster of a robot. :v:[/quote]At least the monster was useful. :v:
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Evolution of design

Post by NFX » Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:41 am

Tellu definitely has...*snrk*...an intruiging bloodline. :D

It's also quite interesting, when people do these, to see what the most successful designs were in the earlier days of this stuff, and how that has evolved. For instance, we had lifting forks to begin with, along with plows and the like, whereas every robot and his uncle nowadays seems to be equipped with the Annoying Wedge Wedge wedge. :v:
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Evolution of design

Post by NFX » Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:29 am

In order to stop Kody complaining. :v: To be honest, I started this a while back and forgot about it, but where better to start than the bot that basically started it all.

I decided to enter ARC: Armageddon after Badnik posted something about it over on GTM. I thought I'd give it a look, since I'd tried making some MS Paint bots around about the same time, and they seemed to go down quite well. However, I didn't have a full team for the tournament yet, and I didn't even know many of the rules. After a quick look through the ARC Regulations, I managed to "acquire" a copy of Rhino 2.0 from the old Drowning City site, knock out a decent crusher with poor stats, and a walker that wasn't a walker with a weapon system that didn't really work. Cyclone was brought in from GTM, and to fill the Heavyweight slot I bust out my most detailed and ambitious MS Paint bot to date.

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The first CFL Kraze. The original Kraze was a very subpar Robot Arena 2 bot with two drills on either end. The only thing Kraze 2 has in common with it would be the name. Continuing with the theme of me really not having a proper grasp of what I was doing at the time, it was given a Traction stat that left a little to be desired, decidedly average armour, and a static wedge at a time when sprung or Underall wedges were dominating. What it did have in its favour, though, were a decent amount of speed in hand, and a pretty powerful flipping arm.

Throughout the season, a few things became apparent to me. While Kraze was decidedly useless against pushy rammers, it could hold its own reasonably well against spinners, and a few splashes of ingenuity with my RP's scored a win against the berserk ZED Leppelin, and another win in the do-or-die last-week match against the veteran Adrenaline. Being able to showcase the power of Kraze's flipper, and with some creative use of the environment, the match went down to the wire, with the eventual 23-22 decision falling in Kraze's favour, punching its ticket to the playoffs - the only robot from a newcomer to do so. Unfortunately, it met Tank straight away. Having lost the previous match with a cautious approach, I decided to go balls-out aggressive...which didn't work. Kraze was wedged, sent to the drum and kicked over, and this happened over and over again until the weapon power ran dry and self-righting proved impossible. But a 5-6 record, a spot in the playoffs, and the Astrodude Award were a pretty significant haul from my first ever CFL tournament.

After Armageddon had come to a close, Kraze had shown a number of weaknesses which were now apparent to me. The control was lacking, as was the armour, and the power of the flipper wasn't really lending itself to my style of fighting. And on top of that, its wedges were terrible. Going back into Rhinoceros, and after a few conceptual sketches, the next generation of Kraze was born.

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With the new stat system in place, and the introduction of a new Wedge stat, Kraze 3 was more or less a complete overhaul of the design, with improved Armour, more balanced control, and - curiously - a less powerful flipper. I went down this road because I felt that controlling the opponent would be easier if I wasn't throwing them so far away. The double-sided wedge design was so that I had a secondary method of attack if needs be, but the most significant change was the suction fan, which meant that I had an unlimited number of flips, and I wouldn't run the risk of getting stranded on my back like I did against Tank. With the many improvements made, I was looking forward to the FRR: Dead Zone tournament, and to see what the second CFL generation of Kraze would do.

As it turned out, Kraze 3 would do a good deal more than its predecessor. Starting its campaign against a powerful spinner, its tougher armour proved its worth with a judges' decision victory. After a comparatively easy win came Blood Thirsty. Another pretty even matchup, but Kraze was able to eke out a 23-22 decision and take its record to 3-0. After the bye week, Kraze continued its tear through the competition, from the destruction of the arena drum against Bulletproof Bomb, to its curious victory over The Intimidator by a score of "Oogy to Boogy". After ten weeks, a 9-0 record and the longest undefeated streak in the tournament, Kraze met Slasher to determine the #1 Seed in the Heavyweight Division. It was a great fight, but Slasher's better Torque proved critical, as I tried to avoid the lifter and was promptly wedged beneath my unprotected sides. One 24-21 decision later, Kraze was placed in a rematch against Blood Thirsty, but this time the 23-22 went the other way, and Kraze was again knocked out, but having definitely proved that it could be a real contender against the top dogs.

Despite being arguably the most improved machine in FRR: Dead Zone, the tournament had again thrown up some more downsides to Kraze's design. The first of which was the lack of wedges on the sides, and the front corners were still an issue, being liable to attacks from spinners as they were. Plus the horns looked a little bit ungainly compared to the sides. Another round of Rhino, and Kraze's next incarnation was created.

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More a refinement of the theory this time, as every iteration of Kraze from this point on seemed to be, rather than a complete overhaul. Wedging now extends around all four sides, which seemed to work with the suction fan to give it even more wedginess, plus the flipper was now the full width of the robot at the front end, which would give it a bit more durability when it came to spinners. And so it would seem, taking the #1 playoff spot in Ruination: The Beginning, only losing a split decision against fellow flipper Terminal Velocity along the way. Unfortunately, Kraze's 100% record of falling at the first post-season hurdle continued, Revolver Ocelot defeating it in fairly convincing fashion.

When the second Ruination tournament came around, however, I should have taken the post-season loss to Revolver Ocelot as a sign that Kraze was quite ill-equipped to fight spinners, especially undercutting ones. Ruination: The Omen had a considerable amount of those, failing to break even, being KO'd three times, and failing to make the playoffs for the first time ever. It seemed the wedge at the front was the main issue, not letting me get the flipper into play as easily as I would like. Plus the hinges could do with some tidying up. Back into Rhino, and out came Kraze as he is today.

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Now entered into the third Ruination tournament, The Contagion, and with a redesigned flipper, some sleeker skirting, and the usual Team Mongoose flair, such as the dazzle paint and antennae that hark back to the original incarnation. Aside from that, not much has changed since last time out. There are still plenty of HW designs that could do with a trial, such as the newer MiDAS and Cryoseism, but I think there'll always be a spot on my team for the Four-bar Flipper of Fury. Brought me my first taste of success, I took the ball, ran with it, and here we are today.

Without Kraze, there might not have been a Team Mongoose as we know it.
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Evolution of design

Post by That Kode Guy » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:14 pm

Kraze has kept his roots with every iteration and that's something to be proud of.

Also that Paint picture was and still is awesome.
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Evolution of design

Post by That Kode Guy » Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:26 pm

DP<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>NFX</dt><dd>Jan 31 2015, 06:41 AM</dd></dl><div>It's also quite interesting, when people do these, to see what the most successful designs were in the earlier days of this stuff, and how that has evolved. For instance, we had lifting forks to begin with, along with plows and the like, whereas every robot and his uncle nowadays seems to be equipped with the Annoying Wedge Wedge wedge. :v:
[/quote]As the metagame evolves, the bots evolve as well and the more embittered do people become. :v:
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Evolution of design

Post by MadBull » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:12 pm

There have been various versions of Golden Blaze. Two of them are very old versions from GTM that never got to ARC. Others did fight in ARC. That's life. They were made by Bob, who is also Mystic, who is also French.

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Evolution of design

Post by NFX » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:14 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>MadBull</dt><dd>Jan 31 2015, 03:12 PM</dd></dl><div>There have been various versions of Golden Blaze. Two of them are very old versions from GTM that never got to ARC. Others did fight in ARC. That's life. They were made by Bob, who is also Mystic, who is also French.[/quote]No iteration of Golden Blaze has thus far featured the Annoying Wedge Wedge wedge.
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Evolution of design

Post by MadBull » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:29 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>NFX</dt><dd>Jan 31 2015, 03:14 PM</dd></dl><div><blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>MadBull</dt><dd>Jan 31 2015, 03:12 PM</dd></dl><div>There have been various versions of Golden Blaze. Two of them are very old versions from GTM that never got to ARC. Others did fight in ARC. That's life. They were made by Bob, who is also Mystic, who is also French.[/quote]No iteration of Golden Blaze has thus far featured the Annoying Wedge Wedge wedge.[/quote]No Golden Blazes were hurt during the making of this post.

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Evolution of design

Post by Mystic2000 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:34 pm

Heh, alright here is the evolution/timeline/history of Golden Blaze:

Image

First off we have this pre-ARC version that never made it in a tourney, and would suck anyway, the cube at the front was meant to act like a Blood Boon style blade and the back bars on top were meant to be Panic Attack style selfrighters

After a bit of talking with Badnik on Skype, i realized that this version was doomed for sure in FFR s'HW division (since it was meant for it), so i thought of an anti wedge design and remembered of some bot i saw on FRA, and thus the first Golden Blaze to have competed was born:

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However, due to my lack of experience we all knew how it went: terribly bad

Then i made two rebuilds that never got entered:

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Then the second competing version of Golden Blaze was created, unfortunaly since the pic is not anymore on my computer, so ihave to replace it with a Rhino version, but since it was pretty much the same, it's not that big of a deal:

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Said version was entered in Crazy Bots: where it failed even worse, due to a nerfed weapon that proved ineffective, after that, i also tried to get rid of a major flaw it had: unability to self-right

I tried to add a pole like on Megabyte, and thus another version was made, but it never saw battle so the pole s'effectiveness was left unknown:

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And then, i came up with an solution, making it a ring spinner, which would grant him invertibility and finally make him able to no get taken down in seconds by flippers or any sort of wedge, and then the current Golden Blaze was born:

Image

Image

This concludes Golden Blaze s'totally uninteresting story...

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Evolution of design

Post by That Kode Guy » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:33 pm

I always liked the first version of Golden Blaze you entered. You defeated Striker, Parasite, and MiDAS with it. Those aren't easy things for a newcomer to do.

I think I'll go into a spiel about the longest running series of lightweight robots I've had: Anti-Virus.

It all starts with a Bad Attitude-style rammer I had in my "n00b" days (2002-2005). Its name was Havochunter, and it had two versions. The second version was more like S5 Double Agent, but both were horrendous. Thankfully, they never competed. Nor did this:

Image

Here's the first actual Anti-Virus. Now at the time, I didn't consider Anti-Virus to be related to my old LW rammer. But in theory, it makes sense because it and the first version of Havochunter had the exact same shape, just without the dumb skirt in front and the dumb side spikes. I don't suppose anyone could reliably fit a hinge inside a scoop except for Alex MW. :v:

Why the name Anti-Virus? I really am not sure, it probably just sounded cool. That or I wanted an "ironic" name, something I myself hated, and anti-virus programs, well... they are their own anti-thesis. Most of them make your computer run slower (instead of making it run faster by cleaning up malware/spyware/whateverware :v: ). [/opinion] Though I doubt I was thinking this at the time.

Now, there is an old CAD I had that I made first, which has the exact CAD shape, just without the side spikes. I, uh... drew side spikes on the CAD in Paint, to prevent it from Zombie-Killering, though at the time I didn't know who Zombie Killer was. :P And so when it came time to re-CAD the damn thing, I had to CAD the spikes as well. Ugh, lol.

Image

Anti-Virus 2.0. I dunno, this version seems worse now because 4WD + fixed wedge/scoop = instant loser. At least it lost the shitty side spikes it had before, in place of flashier ones that were actually worse. Whatever. I touched it up a bit:

Image

And that was the result, 2.1. Same thing pretty much. It was also the first thing that competed. It won an annihilator tournament. You remember swimm3r, right? He ran that annihilator. :P Interpret that as you will.

<img src="http://i.imgur.com/sCQPi8U.png" alt="Posted Image" width='600' height='450' />
And a cleaner re-CAD here.

Anti-Virus 3.0. Made more beginner mistakes here, such as inadequate wedge protection, an armour bonus given to the wrong thing, etc. But at least this thing proved more effective than the previous iterations. It managed to make the quarters of ARC: Carnage before losing (again) to Rascal 23-22. So I actually did something right with this thing. The front pointed wedge I <del>stole</del> borrowed from Eurypterus, but I didn't copy it right. :P

Here's where I did.

<img src="http://i.imgur.com/s4PCKqE.png" alt="Posted Image" width='822' height='444' />

Anti-Virus 4.0. This one I was actually proud of because I had been wanting to implement a cage design with my improving Rhino skills and I thought I had done a decent job here. The thing here was spinner protection, because even though I'd given Anti-Virus a decent armour value, he had too many edges on him due to the cage. Probably why Frequency was able to tear him a new one. But he made the play-offs again, but lost in the semis. To a spinner. :v:

So, at this point I was wondering whether to retire Anti-Virus and keep going with BlackRose, the other LW rammer. Eventually I decided to keep them both, and BlackRose turned into more of a lifter, while Anti-Virus stayed a rammer.

<img src="http://i.imgur.com/1JgXMlx.png" alt="Posted Image" width='822' height='428' />

Hey look, it's Anti-Virus 5.0&#33; Actually, it's the base of one of Zombie Killer's versions, because I wasn't happy with it and gave it to Josh instead. :v:

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Anti-Virus 5.5. Pretty much a direct sequel to 4.0, because it still had the cage. But I wasn't happy with this version either. I really don't know why. I think it's because I didn't think its set-ups were that great. Oh well. It didn't compete, obviously.

Image

So here's the newest version, Anti-Virus 6.0. He's due to compete in LoRE2, replacing Troubloon. I've still yet to make an anti-spinner setup for him, but maybe if I solve my computer problems before LoRE2 swings around, I can give him one.

He's 11-8 on ARC. He won't reach SZF levels of success but getting over double digit wins with this underachiever is something I can be proud of.
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Evolution of design

Post by That Kode Guy » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:03 pm

Okay, so I'm gonna do another one of these and bring relevance back to this thread.

Enter - Wedginator&#33;

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Wedginator 1 (circa 2002)

My first vapourbot that ever competed in a tournament. Obviously I had to re-CAD the thing, because I lost the paint pic.

Front-hinged flipper (the whole front panel) and a rear vertical disc. This was the only time Wedginator ever had a spinning weapon, and the only time until 9.0 where he'd have a weapon other than a flipper.

So, why the name Wedginator, eh? Because he wedgies people? :v: Uh, no, though I've probably given you that mental image now. :v: Well Steven McGregor had Wedge 1, and Andy Jackson (AJ) had Wedga, so I wanted to "join" them. :P Upon hindsight, Wedginator is incredibly dumb for a name but on the other hand it's kind of endearing, so I still like it. :v:

Success? What success? The only robot it ever beat was AJ's hammer, Hammerer 2.0. Granted, it was in VFT which is a nice bonus, but Hammerer wasn't exactly known for being one of the better bots (don't hurt me AJ)

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Image

Wedginator Revolution (circa 2003)

Probably the best of the "old" Wedginator line. Your basic Spawn Again clone. Rear-hinged flipper here. You'll notice I rendered it to the exact dimensions I gave it in the stats. Which would, erm, become a major problem with the next iteration.

I don't really have much to say about this guy, really. Matt Fowler had him beat several bots in his major tournament, before losing to a Steve bot in the Grand Final. Wedginator came 3rd, and that was back in 2003.

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Image

Wedginator rEVILution (circa 2004)

dsahfasd;flddhjshglg; what the fuck is this thing help

This is why your dimensions shouldn't almost be the same in all three planes. :v: If it's a wedge, this is what it will look like. Garbage. :v: Granted, I had a paint pic that still exists somewhere, and is much better than... whatever THIS is...

Thankfully it never competed.

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Wedginator Reborn (circa 2006)

The first thing I made upon my return to FRA. You can thank Siphai for this guy. :v: Siphai was the one who showed me how to Rhino3D properly, long before I joined ARC. :v: Of course, um, it has its flaws. Wheels are waaaaaaay too close together, even more than Wheely Big Cheese... also exposed. Meh, it's been than rEVILution, and that's what counts. Again, never competed. Why? I don't know, it might have done somewhat well.

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Wedginator 5.0 (circa 2007)

I don't know what this was, other than a return to being front-hinged. Okay, maybe I do. :P It's a tetrahedron. The front panel pops out. Skirts all around. 2WD.

And somehow, it did well. Matt Fowler had opened another tournament years later, and Wedginator 5.0 reached the semis. Can't remember who he lost to, but idc much. :v:

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Wedginator 6.0 (circa January 2008)

Arguably the most successful Wedginator until X. Erm... let me try and explain this. The whole body flips forward, so it's a front-hinged flipper at the front, and a rear-hinged one at the rear. Make sense? :v: It came 2nd... in a hypo tournament. But it also reached the semis of a non-hypoed tournament, so it cancels out. Maybe. Meh, I redesigned him.

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Wedginator Devilution (circa May 2008)

Meh, it deserved more praise IMO. I particularly liked the barbed wedge hooks, even though it was likely they wouldn't get under much. It won a hypo tournament, so I'll not count that. :v: But the face, man... that face. :P

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Image

Wedgin8or (circa October 2008)

F34r my 1337 num3r47i0n n0m3ncla7ur3&#33; Yeah, uh, something-something double-sided front-hinged flipper. Very Firestorm. Very much a version that didn't do anything but look cool. It was my first attempt at rendering him in 3DS Max, but the re-done version here is still Rhino3D, because I forget where the other render is. :v:

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Wedginator 9.0 (circa 2009)

First version without a flipper&#33; First version without a textured face&#33; It had long lifting forks and a punching spike&#33; It also had half omni-drive - front two were normal and the rear two were omni-wheels. Those weren't the problem. It was the implementation that was the problem. Way too thin. Weapon synergy was completely horrible. Forks wouldn't get under shit.

Despite this, it reached a Grand Final Annihilator. Okay, whatever.

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Wedginator X (circa 2010)

"Current" Wedginator, and the most successful yet. This was pretty much a complete clone of one of Shane Swan's robots, Envy, back in 2010. Yet it worked, oh did it work. It won me my first real major tournament on FRA, Mechanical Maelstrom 3.0. And then FRA just sort of died. :v: Yep.

I'm rather fond of this one, because of the amount of work I put into it. I did like this one's textured face the most. :v:

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??? (circa 2014)

Some stupid idea of mine to make Wedginator ARC-worthy. It's not great at all. Maybe except for the face. But yeah. :v:

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What's next for that thing? IRDFK. :v:
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Evolution of design

Post by Mystic2000 » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:59 pm

i could try to make one of these if i had any bot with more than 5 versions (except Golden Blaze but i already did that one)...

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