ARC Showbots 2016 - Discussion

Drowning City's media and other contents announced, discussed, and bashed in here.
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Hooray For Lexan
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ARC Showbots 2016 - Discussion

Post by Hooray For Lexan » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:01 pm

Whew! I made it through the first round, despite going up against a pretty good bot!

...and now I'm fighting Brimstone. Fuck.

Also, for future reference, this shows the height of Skoll's disc:

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The part of the chassis above the disc is bigger, due to actually containing the weapon motors, ESCs, and all that cool stuff.

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Venice Queen
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ARC Showbots 2016 - Discussion

Post by Venice Queen » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:05 pm

I'm sure I'd agree if I could see the picture :v:
‽ ROBOTICS
CHAMPIONS: Lightweight//Ruination 4//Nick's Fuzzy Rules -- -- Hobbyweight//Bot-o-Rama//Buzzkill -- -- Arbitraryweight//D12//Listen Here, Grandad, This Is America, Everyone Here Eats Ass

Bots that I think are better than my actual champions: Chimera // Venice Queen // Cuddle Time!


V900? Wheres V1-899 ~NickyDustyOwl
fridge ~ V900

Wasn't Ted Bundy physically attractive though? ~Superbomb122
get a room ~Madbull
I will NOT ~Superbomb122



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Cha0sFerret
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ARC Showbots 2016 - Discussion

Post by Cha0sFerret » Sun Sep 04, 2016 3:33 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>The_Angry_Goat</dt><dd>Sep 4 2016, 03:05 PM</dd></dl><div>I'm sure I'd agree if I could see the picture :v:[/quote]I gotchu
poopity scoop

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Venice Queen
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ARC Showbots 2016 - Discussion

Post by Venice Queen » Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:59 am

Just as a reminder since a lot of people seem to be doing this - the ARC RP format's a bit different in that you should not ever double post in the RP thread
‽ ROBOTICS
CHAMPIONS: Lightweight//Ruination 4//Nick's Fuzzy Rules -- -- Hobbyweight//Bot-o-Rama//Buzzkill -- -- Arbitraryweight//D12//Listen Here, Grandad, This Is America, Everyone Here Eats Ass

Bots that I think are better than my actual champions: Chimera // Venice Queen // Cuddle Time!


V900? Wheres V1-899 ~NickyDustyOwl
fridge ~ V900

Wasn't Ted Bundy physically attractive though? ~Superbomb122
get a room ~Madbull
I will NOT ~Superbomb122



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patrickrowberry
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ARC Showbots 2016 - Discussion

Post by patrickrowberry » Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:21 pm

cries because i am out
Last edited by patrickrowberry on Fri Sep 09, 2016 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Hooray For Lexan
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ARC Showbots 2016 - Discussion

Post by Hooray For Lexan » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:34 am

Well, uhh...

that was a fight I guess? Not as much interesting shit happened as I'd have liked, but on the other hand both halves of H&S made it to the judges decision against a bot that was pretty much the worst possible matchup for it.

Congratulations Monsterworks, you are to ARC what the creators of things like Pun-Pun are to D&D, in terms of hilariously game-breaking designs.

Speaking of which... yeah, Brimstone definitely illustrates a few rule changes that need to happen.

1: I think the issue with single-tooth weapons and the wording of the +2 vs. +4 weapon armor bonus thing has already been mentioned, but yeah... that needs to be changed to either "the diameter of the outer circle swept by the weapon is greater than the length of the robot's long axis" or "when viewed from directly above, no significant non-spinning part of the robot protrudes outside the circle swept by the weapon. Wedges, wheels, or the main chassis are significant: parts such as a bent pipe meant to skirt the spirit of this rule are not."

2: Using the multi-weapon rule of "2/3 base weapon score" for weapons which can then be used like a single weapon is ridiculous. Imagine if I said "my invertible flipper has a weapon power of 9 (6/6), for two flippers, one on the top of the double-sided wedge, one on the bottom which flips the entire chassis up. When I fire them together, this gives the robot an effective flipping power of 12." Basically I just entered a robot with 33 stat points. Similarly, when in melty mode, Brimstone essentially has 11 speed + 16 weapon + 1 torque + 1 traction + 7 armor = 36 stat points&#33;

3: Obviously make melties subject to the regular traction rules when translating. I'm guessing this was never an issue because nobody ever entered one with more than like 3 translational speed before.

So, with regard to melties... it seems like there are three main ways of handling them. As a test, I'll build a "bimodal" melty which can also operate as a regular thwackbot, a pure melty (Charybdis), and a hybrid melty/FBS (Brimstone).

A: The current method of reversing the speed and weapon stats. This seems most applicable to robots that can function as both a conventional thwackbot and a melty, and isn't terrible for a pure melty, but as demonstrated it breaks down for hybrid melties. Under this system, pure melties also really need the traction for spinup bonus to be viable compared to shell and ring spinners.

Bimodal melty: 10 speed, 7 traction, 1 torque, 3 weapon, 9 armor (+2 thwacking head). Pretty much shit because it needs so much traction to be controllable.

Pure Melty: 15 speed, 2 traction (+3 spinup), 1 torque, 3 weapon, 9 armor (+2 teeth). This is usable, but only with buffs.

Hybrid: 5 speed, 1 traction (+3 spinup), 1 torque, 15 weapon (10/10), 8 armor (+2 shell/blade). Erm... this actually wouldn't be THAT obnoxious if we take away magically ignoring the traction rules while translating in melty mode because it would be uncontrollable, but a melty drivetrain translating faster than it spins without using omni wheels seems unrealistic to me.

B: The Monsterworks method of having speed = spinning speed, 1/4 speed = translational speed, and weapon is totally separate. This

Bimodal Melty: 11 speed, 9 traction, 1 torque, 0 weapon, 9 armor (+2 thwacking head). Whoa, this thing could actually be usable, although 11 weapon power isn't amazing.

Pure melty: 15 speed, 5 traction, 1 torque, 0 weapon, 9 armor (+2 teeth). Moves at 4 speed. It acts like it has 34 stat points, but because it needs to put a bunch of them into traction to avoid taking weeks to spin up like Charybdis in Backlash, you can't build an OP weapon and expect it to actually work. The 5 traction and resulting control ratio seems odd though, since most real melties I've seen seem to act like they have very low traction scores.

Hybrid Melty: 8 speed, 4 traction, 1 torque, 8 weapon, 9 armor (+2 shell). Moves at 2 speed, hits with 16 power. Very fast spinup, but gets slower late in the match due to self-damage. If I wanted to build a ring spinner with the same effective speed, weapon, and weapon armor, I'd have 2 traction, so the hybrid does perform slightly better. I still think shitty weapon armor scores should threaten to KO the whole robot, though.

C: Adapt the system from Bot-O-Rama: Traction ONLY applies to translational movement: spinup time is treated the same as regular spinners. However, multi-weapon rules DO NOT APPLY if your weapons can increase their effective power by attacking simultaneously.

Bimodal Melty: 10 speed, 7 traction, 1 torque, 3 weapon, 9 armor (+2 thwack head). Sounds familiar... but honestly you could just put 1 point into weapon and be fine since you have very fast translation in normal mode.

Pure Melty: 15 speed, 1 traction, 1 torque, 3 weapon, 10 armor (+2 teeth). Basically performs as well as a ring spinner, except it's a little less durable.

Hybrid Melty: 8 speed, 1 traction, 1 torque, 11 weapon (3 melty translation, 8 shell spinning), 9 armor (+2 shell). Okay, now the effective stats (16 weapon, 3 speed, etc) actually add up to 30. It can also switch to translational mode and go screaming across the arena with almost no control.

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Venice Queen
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ARC Showbots 2016 - Discussion

Post by Venice Queen » Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:59 am

The single tooth problem I currently have fixed in the new ruleset by saying something along the lines of obvious attempts to cheat that rule through use of a weapon marginally shorter than the robot's chassis diameter can still be subject to the rule at the discretion of the tournament organizer... Other than that, I think that we should make translational speed depend on traction for control, but I don't think any other buffs or nerfs are in order.
‽ ROBOTICS
CHAMPIONS: Lightweight//Ruination 4//Nick's Fuzzy Rules -- -- Hobbyweight//Bot-o-Rama//Buzzkill -- -- Arbitraryweight//D12//Listen Here, Grandad, This Is America, Everyone Here Eats Ass

Bots that I think are better than my actual champions: Chimera // Venice Queen // Cuddle Time!


V900? Wheres V1-899 ~NickyDustyOwl
fridge ~ V900

Wasn't Ted Bundy physically attractive though? ~Superbomb122
get a room ~Madbull
I will NOT ~Superbomb122



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The Monsterworks
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ARC Showbots 2016 - Discussion

Post by The Monsterworks » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:34 pm

I'm glad that Brimstone has served its intended purpose in pointing out the shortcomings of the current rule set and that changes have been made to the blade rule. I suggest that they be made official following CBC, on time for R4.

As for the melty drive system, I DO think that translational speed should be dependent upon traction for control in the future. However, having speed and weapon reversed is inelegant, and having traction apply only while translating leaves combination spinners no means of moving in a controlled manner while not translating. I believe that my melty-brain system provides the best option, and I also agree that it should be tweaked further so that a poor armour-combined weapon ratio should KO the whole bot. In terms of further nerfs, perhaps no melty-brain bot should be eligible for an armour bonus to a mounted weapon. Just my two cents.
Mastodon... Extinction (HW)
Osiris... Armageddon! (MW)
Elrathia... ROBOTS (LW)
Magnolia Pico... Ruination 4 (MW)
RipTide... ROBOT2 (FW)
Black Diamond... Cherry Bomb Classic 3 (HW)
MADSCIENCE... ROBOTS 3 (LW)
Abyss... ROBOTS 3 (MW)


The Monsterworks: 214-57 (.790) ...Probably up to no good.
Cherry Bomb Classic IV: 25-4
Finishing Move: 6-2
Magnolia Pico: 6-1
Magnolia Grande: 6-1
Glacier III: 7-0
ROBOTS 3: 21-6
Sixpounder: 3-4
MADSCIENCE: 9-1 Champion!
Abyss: 9-1 Champion!

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NFX
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ARC Showbots 2016 - Discussion

Post by NFX » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:46 pm

At least Taur beat Bunker Buster. =D

And it's good to see a multibot performing well again. Clusters representing. :v:
Team Mongoose (358-215)
"The Colour of Awesome"

Braveheart / Crash Blossom / Depth Charge / Broken Ghost / Murder Death Unit / Agent X

RoBattle
Override - Heats: 19 pts / Finals: 3 pts
MiDAS - Heats: 19 pts / Finals: 0 pts

it was a gigantic masturbation of polygons :v - That Kode Guy

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Venice Queen
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ARC Showbots 2016 - Discussion

Post by Venice Queen » Mon Sep 12, 2016 12:58 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>The Monsterworks</dt><dd>Sep 12 2016, 12:34 PM</dd></dl><div> having traction apply only while translating leaves combination spinners no means of moving in a controlled manner while not translating. [/quote]you don't have to use the split weapons rule - you can just funnel off a point or two of weapon into the melty system
‽ ROBOTICS
CHAMPIONS: Lightweight//Ruination 4//Nick's Fuzzy Rules -- -- Hobbyweight//Bot-o-Rama//Buzzkill -- -- Arbitraryweight//D12//Listen Here, Grandad, This Is America, Everyone Here Eats Ass

Bots that I think are better than my actual champions: Chimera // Venice Queen // Cuddle Time!


V900? Wheres V1-899 ~NickyDustyOwl
fridge ~ V900

Wasn't Ted Bundy physically attractive though? ~Superbomb122
get a room ~Madbull
I will NOT ~Superbomb122



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The Monsterworks
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ARC Showbots 2016 - Discussion

Post by The Monsterworks » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:26 pm

I should have specified, to be fair. I was addressing the third option. It's more balanced, but kinda assumes that all melties will always be translating.
Mastodon... Extinction (HW)
Osiris... Armageddon! (MW)
Elrathia... ROBOTS (LW)
Magnolia Pico... Ruination 4 (MW)
RipTide... ROBOT2 (FW)
Black Diamond... Cherry Bomb Classic 3 (HW)
MADSCIENCE... ROBOTS 3 (LW)
Abyss... ROBOTS 3 (MW)


The Monsterworks: 214-57 (.790) ...Probably up to no good.
Cherry Bomb Classic IV: 25-4
Finishing Move: 6-2
Magnolia Pico: 6-1
Magnolia Grande: 6-1
Glacier III: 7-0
ROBOTS 3: 21-6
Sixpounder: 3-4
MADSCIENCE: 9-1 Champion!
Abyss: 9-1 Champion!

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Venice Queen
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ARC Showbots 2016 - Discussion

Post by Venice Queen » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:55 pm

I can't even understand that one :v:
‽ ROBOTICS
CHAMPIONS: Lightweight//Ruination 4//Nick's Fuzzy Rules -- -- Hobbyweight//Bot-o-Rama//Buzzkill -- -- Arbitraryweight//D12//Listen Here, Grandad, This Is America, Everyone Here Eats Ass

Bots that I think are better than my actual champions: Chimera // Venice Queen // Cuddle Time!


V900? Wheres V1-899 ~NickyDustyOwl
fridge ~ V900

Wasn't Ted Bundy physically attractive though? ~Superbomb122
get a room ~Madbull
I will NOT ~Superbomb122



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The Monsterworks
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ARC Showbots 2016 - Discussion

Post by The Monsterworks » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:29 pm

TBH, me too.
Mastodon... Extinction (HW)
Osiris... Armageddon! (MW)
Elrathia... ROBOTS (LW)
Magnolia Pico... Ruination 4 (MW)
RipTide... ROBOT2 (FW)
Black Diamond... Cherry Bomb Classic 3 (HW)
MADSCIENCE... ROBOTS 3 (LW)
Abyss... ROBOTS 3 (MW)


The Monsterworks: 214-57 (.790) ...Probably up to no good.
Cherry Bomb Classic IV: 25-4
Finishing Move: 6-2
Magnolia Pico: 6-1
Magnolia Grande: 6-1
Glacier III: 7-0
ROBOTS 3: 21-6
Sixpounder: 3-4
MADSCIENCE: 9-1 Champion!
Abyss: 9-1 Champion!

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Hooray For Lexan
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ARC Showbots 2016 - Discussion

Post by Hooray For Lexan » Mon Sep 12, 2016 3:50 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>As for the melty drive system, I DO think that translational speed should be dependent upon traction for control in the future. However, having speed and weapon reversed is inelegant, and having traction apply only while translating leaves combination spinners no means of moving in a controlled manner while not translating. I believe that my melty-brain system provides the best option, and I also agree that it should be tweaked further so that a poor armour-combined weapon ratio should KO the whole bot. In terms of further nerfs, perhaps no melty-brain bot should be eligible for an armour bonus to a mounted weapon. Just my two cents. [/quote]

I agree that having speed and weapon reversed like that is silly. OTOH, I like being able to adjust the translational speed of a melty, so I'm not sure about having translational speed equal speed/4.

What about if having melty-brain control was represented as splitting the speed stat into rotational and translational speeds? So for example to make a conventional thwackbot into a melty you take a point of speed and put it into translational drift speed? This in combination with either a traction bonus for spinup purposes or traction-independent spinup would work pretty well I think.

Bimodal Thwackbot: Speed 12 (10 conventional and spin, 2 melty-mode translation), 8 traction, 1 torque, 0 weapon, 9 armor (+2 thwacking head)

Pure melty: Speed 18 (15 spin, 3 translation), 2 traction (+3 spinup bonus), 1 torque, 0 weapon, 9 armor (+2 thwacking head)

Hybrid FBS: Speed 6 (5 conventional/spin, 2 melty translation), 2 traction (+3 melty spinup bonus), 1 torque, 11 weapon, 9 armor (+2 shell)

Pure ring spinner: Speed 3, Traction 2, Torque 1, Weapon 15, Armor 9 (+2 shell).

A melty's translational speed could also be limited to, say, 1/4 of the total speed stat, to prevent absurdly fast translation.

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Venice Queen
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ARC Showbots 2016 - Discussion

Post by Venice Queen » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:02 pm

that's just a more confusing way of splitting the weapon stat though
‽ ROBOTICS
CHAMPIONS: Lightweight//Ruination 4//Nick's Fuzzy Rules -- -- Hobbyweight//Bot-o-Rama//Buzzkill -- -- Arbitraryweight//D12//Listen Here, Grandad, This Is America, Everyone Here Eats Ass

Bots that I think are better than my actual champions: Chimera // Venice Queen // Cuddle Time!


V900? Wheres V1-899 ~NickyDustyOwl
fridge ~ V900

Wasn't Ted Bundy physically attractive though? ~Superbomb122
get a room ~Madbull
I will NOT ~Superbomb122



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