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Venice Queen
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Post by Venice Queen » Wed Feb 22, 2017 5:16 pm

I forgot to make one of these for my last thing and people started having conversations in the signup page, so I'm just gonna leave this here :V
‽ ROBOTICS
CHAMPIONS: Lightweight//Ruination 4//Nick's Fuzzy Rules -- -- Hobbyweight//Bot-o-Rama//Buzzkill -- -- Arbitraryweight//D12//Listen Here, Grandad, This Is America, Everyone Here Eats Ass

Bots that I think are better than my actual champions: Chimera // Venice Queen // Cuddle Time!


V900? Wheres V1-899 ~NickyDustyOwl
fridge ~ V900

Wasn't Ted Bundy physically attractive though? ~Superbomb122
get a room ~Madbull
I will NOT ~Superbomb122



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attackfrog
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Post by attackfrog » Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:39 pm

Looks like fun! But I've learned my lesson about signing up for tournaments too far in advance, so I'm going to wait on putting my name in on this one until after RB2 is over and everything.

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Cha0sFerret
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Post by Cha0sFerret » Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:46 am

I was going to redesign Drop Zone and Translaytor some day soon anyway. My middleweight and heavyweight will be new bots. Corporate Interests is posted, and Flashbang will likely be some variety of flipper.
poopity scoop

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The Monsterworks
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Post by The Monsterworks » Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:58 am

So, a few comments, concerns and question, as well as a handful of things I'd appreciate clarified/confirmed:

1) I like the idea of a decaying control ratio after 8 to slow down some of these robots. It also makes sense from a realism-based perspective.

2) The walker solution is a bit inelegant, but you can't please everyone and I like what it does. It encourages walkers with multiple weapons and more drivetrain, as well as keeping them strong but not obscenely overpowered.

3) I'm really not a fan of the hammer rules, however, because they basically cripple any 12+ power hammer in a situation where it needs to deal damage rapidly. They also don't really reflect real life, where something well balanced and with maybe a 12-13 power hammer like beta (in the fight against Overhaul) can fire its weapon every 1-1.5 seconds or so. I feel like hammers already have to deal with having a weapon that has to be both aimed at a small and moving area as well as timed. Maybe this was an attempt to add some clarity to muddy rules, but I fear that the effect will be to nerf a type that is really pretty necessary in terms of shifting the meta away from its current brick dominance.

4) Totally digging the multibot rule from Monkeywrench. It's flexible, makes multis viable and interesting, and empowers a type of design that acts as a soft counter to plow stacking wedges.

5) The KE-transfer nerf sucks for designs like Seadevil, but it was long overdue and is probably fair.

With those comments out of the way, I have a few questions:

1) Are you keeping the oldschool saw rules or adopting the CBC ones? I honestly feel that the CBC rules better reflect the nature of saw damage, and with a bit of tweaking, give saw-based designs the chance to be reasonably competitive, as they were demonstrated to be in the most recent season of battlebots as well as in numerous smaller events.

2) Is there still a walker speed and torque cap? I know you were thinking of getting rid of this. Any decision? I'd love to make a faster walker.
Mastodon... Extinction (HW)
Osiris... Armageddon! (MW)
Elrathia... ROBOTS (LW)
Magnolia Pico... Ruination 4 (MW)
RipTide... ROBOT2 (FW)
Black Diamond... Cherry Bomb Classic 3 (HW)
MADSCIENCE... ROBOTS 3 (LW)
Abyss... ROBOTS 3 (MW)


The Monsterworks: 214-57 (.790) ...Probably up to no good.
Cherry Bomb Classic IV: 25-4
Finishing Move: 6-2
Magnolia Pico: 6-1
Magnolia Grande: 6-1
Glacier III: 7-0
ROBOTS 3: 21-6
Sixpounder: 3-4
MADSCIENCE: 9-1 Champion!
Abyss: 9-1 Champion!

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Venice Queen
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Post by Venice Queen » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:43 am

Currently keeping the saw rules as they are in the rules. So not super old school, not yours either.... As I stated in the ruleset, i want a way to remove the walker speed cap, it seems unnecessary when certain systems (like manta and glacier) are obviously capable of greater speed.
‽ ROBOTICS
CHAMPIONS: Lightweight//Ruination 4//Nick's Fuzzy Rules -- -- Hobbyweight//Bot-o-Rama//Buzzkill -- -- Arbitraryweight//D12//Listen Here, Grandad, This Is America, Everyone Here Eats Ass

Bots that I think are better than my actual champions: Chimera // Venice Queen // Cuddle Time!


V900? Wheres V1-899 ~NickyDustyOwl
fridge ~ V900

Wasn't Ted Bundy physically attractive though? ~Superbomb122
get a room ~Madbull
I will NOT ~Superbomb122



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The Monsterworks
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Post by The Monsterworks » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:53 am

Aww. No Osiris.

Also, maybe just remove it then? Any particular eventualities you're worried about?
Last edited by The Monsterworks on Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mastodon... Extinction (HW)
Osiris... Armageddon! (MW)
Elrathia... ROBOTS (LW)
Magnolia Pico... Ruination 4 (MW)
RipTide... ROBOT2 (FW)
Black Diamond... Cherry Bomb Classic 3 (HW)
MADSCIENCE... ROBOTS 3 (LW)
Abyss... ROBOTS 3 (MW)


The Monsterworks: 214-57 (.790) ...Probably up to no good.
Cherry Bomb Classic IV: 25-4
Finishing Move: 6-2
Magnolia Pico: 6-1
Magnolia Grande: 6-1
Glacier III: 7-0
ROBOTS 3: 21-6
Sixpounder: 3-4
MADSCIENCE: 9-1 Champion!
Abyss: 9-1 Champion!

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Venice Queen
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Post by Venice Queen » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:08 am

I... Did remove it
‽ ROBOTICS
CHAMPIONS: Lightweight//Ruination 4//Nick's Fuzzy Rules -- -- Hobbyweight//Bot-o-Rama//Buzzkill -- -- Arbitraryweight//D12//Listen Here, Grandad, This Is America, Everyone Here Eats Ass

Bots that I think are better than my actual champions: Chimera // Venice Queen // Cuddle Time!


V900? Wheres V1-899 ~NickyDustyOwl
fridge ~ V900

Wasn't Ted Bundy physically attractive though? ~Superbomb122
get a room ~Madbull
I will NOT ~Superbomb122



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Madman
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Post by Madman » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:17 am

The war on wedges begins. It should've happened ages ago. I guess I'll toss some robots in. Maybe I'll actually make a cluster.

As for the hammer and saw thing, Alex is just salty because Justice won't be able to fire its hammers twice per second or something dumb like that, and because you're approaching saws realistically. They suck irl and so they suck here. The CBC rules let you have a deadly weapon for too few points, IMO.
Tartarus Robotics Group: Infinitely wise and merciful since 2016
(don't ask about before that)

Black Dog ||| Hellhound V ||| Blood Eagle ||| Santangelo ||| Hellhound VII ||| Hoarfrost

Mechanized Mayhem: 0-0
Heavyweight: Danger Zone (0-0)
CBC4: 26-5
Featherweight: Black Dog III (6-2)
Lightweight: Blood Eagle (7-1)
Middleweight: Hoarfrost (9-0) CHAMPION!
Heavyweight: Santangelo (5-2)
Current Roster: 183-40 (.821)
Black Dog (ROBOTS - MW*, ROBOTS3 - FW, CBC4 - FW): 26-5
Blood Eagle (CBC3 - LW*, CBC4 - LW): 15-2
Danger Zone (Mechanized Mayhem - HW): 0-0
Detroit Iron (ICEcrown - SHW): 6-2
Hellcat (Thunder Underground - MW): 2-0
Hellhound (R: Extinction - HW, Pressure Drop - HW, RB2 - HW, ROBOTS - HW, New Blood - HW*, ROBOTS 3 - HW*, Thunder Underground - HW): 46-11
Hoarfrost (RB2 - MW, Armageddon! - MW, Ruination 4 - LW, Thunder Underground - LW, CBC4 - MW*): 23-5
Krakatoa (Robo-Con - LW, Ruination 4 - SHW, Thunder Underground - LW): 11-2
Meanstreak (RB2 - LW, Ruination 4 - HW): 10-3
Santangelo (CBC3 - SHW*, CBC4 - HW): 13-3
Sundancer (Ruination 4 - MW, R: Revival - MW, REDDIT - HW, R: Evolution - FW): 21-4
Talons Out (ROBOTS - FW): 10-3
Thundercaller (Vexed!): 1-0
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Hooray For Lexan
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Post by Hooray For Lexan » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:12 pm

I can't say I agree with the walker/shuffler rules. Walkers really should have a speed cap: even with a Glacier-type system, having to reverse your power many times per second is going to start making the power demands ludicrous. 5 speed is keeping up with lots of wheeled spinners: IRL this would correspond to a speed of around 8-12 MPH. At 8 MPH, a leg design with a six inch "stroke" would have to take 24 steps per second. At the very least, do something like diminishing returns for walkers with speeds above 4-5, e.g. "every point of speed above 5 costs 2 points for a walker."

For shufflers, it's fine to have no speed limits, but the "no weapon armor" rule makes it extremely difficult to build a shuffling spinner that isn't "wrap-around." For an overhead or shell spinner you'd need to put the entire shuffler bonus into armor to make it perform equally to a wheeled robot, which is all right, but for a front-mounted spinner of any type, losing the +4 weapon armor outright makes shufflers worse. At the very least, this isn't consistent with reality: in events where shufflers get a weight bonus, shuffling spinners like SS Impact function quite well.

IMO the best solution would be to give walkers, shufflers, and omni drive systems a penalty to traction/torque as it applies to knockback and acceleration, and make walkers cost more points to get speed above a certain threshold.


Regarding hammers and saws: Honestly, hammers just aren't powerful enough to need a nerf: you need lots of weapon power to penetrate armor, but if you don't have plenty of armor yourself spinners will shred you, and if you don't have a fast drivetrain bricks will just attack you from the side. I don't recall hammers doing particularly well in recent events except by either being KE-powered (SeaDevil) or using the walker bonus and a turret (Mastodon).

Saws... eesh. I agree that the CBC rules were a bit strong, but with regular ARC rules they basically can't do anything at all. And even in CBC, did a saw weapon on a competitor (not Doctor Cadaver) ever get a KO? Besides, sawbots still need to either have a fast, torque-ey drivetrain that can pin opponents or put points into a clamping mechanism, and just like hammerbots they'll get trashed by spinners without a sturdy plow. This greatly limits the power you can practically put into a saw.

Honestly, I think the CBC rules would actually work just fine with one modification: namely, that your saw's power must exceed your opponent's armor for the saw to penetrate it.

Also, what is the KE Transfer nerf Monsterworks mentioned? I'm not seeing it in the rules.

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Venice Queen
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Post by Venice Queen » Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:24 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>HotDealsInTexas</dt><dd>Feb 24 2017, 06:12 PM</dd></dl><div> Saws... eesh. I agree that the CBC rules were a bit strong, but with regular ARC rules they basically can't do anything at all. And even in CBC, did a saw weapon on a competitor (not Doctor Cadaver) ever get a KO? Besides, sawbots still need to either have a fast, torque-ey drivetrain that can pin opponents or put points into a clamping mechanism, and just like hammerbots they'll get trashed by spinners without a sturdy plow. This greatly limits the power you can practically put into a saw.

Also, what is the KE Transfer nerf Monsterworks mentioned? I'm not seeing it in the rules.
[/quote]the new ARC ruleset uses your rules, modified, IIRC. and Rake Against the machine, at least twice.

the KE thing is in the ruleset proper, again, updated from previous competions. I'm getting the feeling people didn't actually check that :V
‽ ROBOTICS
CHAMPIONS: Lightweight//Ruination 4//Nick's Fuzzy Rules -- -- Hobbyweight//Bot-o-Rama//Buzzkill -- -- Arbitraryweight//D12//Listen Here, Grandad, This Is America, Everyone Here Eats Ass

Bots that I think are better than my actual champions: Chimera // Venice Queen // Cuddle Time!


V900? Wheres V1-899 ~NickyDustyOwl
fridge ~ V900

Wasn't Ted Bundy physically attractive though? ~Superbomb122
get a room ~Madbull
I will NOT ~Superbomb122



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Wolf51-50
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Post by Wolf51-50 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 11:03 am

The walker nerf make some decent sense imo. We don't always need deathspinners winning everything except championships. Might also call for some creative thinking. I think we might be ok with the saw rules for the time being as well, as sawbots haven't had much success aside from Salamandra. But I agree with Alex with the fact that the hammer rules are rather unrealistic and unnecessary. You say hammers are too good, and yet there have only been two notable hammers that have won a championship. And one of those champions won half of it's fights with a flipper :v:
Alpha Robotics - Embrace the carnage!

Recent Tournaments:

ROBOT2
FW: Apocalyptic Peacekeeper (2-3)
LW: Backstab 3 (3-3) [Lifetime 11-8]
MW: Outrage 2 (4-1) [Lifetime 6-3]
HW: Tulta Munille (3-2)

Ruination: The Upheavel
LW: White Lightning (1-6) [Lifetime 4-8]
MW: Diablo Genesis (5-3) [Lifetime 10-5]
HW: Coup de Grâce (2-5) [Lifetime 13-9]
SHW: Fenrir (6-2) [Lifetime 7-3]

Reckoning: The Revival
MW: Vovoka (4-1) [Lifetime 10-3]

tune in next time on ARC when I one-up Boto by posting my vast collection of Thomas The Tank Engine hentai on the Discord :V -HFL

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GF93
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Post by GF93 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 3:26 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>HotDealsInTexas</dt><dd>Feb 24 2017, 06:12 PM</dd></dl><div>And even in CBC, did a saw weapon on a competitor (not Doctor Cadaver) ever get a KO?
[/quote]Rake against the Machine did against Rainbow in the Dark. It literally just cut through the armour like it wasn't even there.
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Badnik96
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Post by Badnik96 » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:41 pm

hey fuck you saws are cool and deserve to be viable
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Pyrite: FRR Backlash LW champ
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winternimbus
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Post by winternimbus » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:55 pm

saws are pretty goddamn neato
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Venice Queen
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Post by Venice Queen » Sat Feb 25, 2017 4:55 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Badnik96</dt><dd>Feb 25 2017, 04:41 PM</dd></dl><div>hey fuck you saws are cool and deserve to be viable[/quote]Badnik96 - Today at 1:43 PM
hey @68 69 20 61 64 61 6d what exactly are the saw rules for ROBOTS


????
‽ ROBOTICS
CHAMPIONS: Lightweight//Ruination 4//Nick's Fuzzy Rules -- -- Hobbyweight//Bot-o-Rama//Buzzkill -- -- Arbitraryweight//D12//Listen Here, Grandad, This Is America, Everyone Here Eats Ass

Bots that I think are better than my actual champions: Chimera // Venice Queen // Cuddle Time!


V900? Wheres V1-899 ~NickyDustyOwl
fridge ~ V900

Wasn't Ted Bundy physically attractive though? ~Superbomb122
get a room ~Madbull
I will NOT ~Superbomb122



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