Ruination: The Upheaval - Discussion

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Ruination: The Upheaval - Discussion

Post by Shaba117 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:31 pm

Week 5-well, that's a round that I would like to forget (after a hopefully more successful next round). 1-3 with the win by The Thieving Magpie being only by FF.

There were numerous issues with all of the bots-issues had piled up quickly after Week 4 and the team just wasn't able to resolve everything for Wk 5. Harpy worked well, but lost mainly due to an 'under-the-weather' operator.

Death Metal-was being typical DM. I still stand by my theory that this machine is posessed and just likes to go 'F- You' and not drive properly. I took everything apart again and did a thorough check of the electronics-nothing appears wrong...so strange. Then, I received a nasty shock from it :/

Triple-6, well, was just plain outdriven by Xonotic. Guess I'll chalk that Loss up to subpar driving, as well.

Hope things go better for Week 6!
Last edited by Shaba117 on Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ruination: The Upheaval - Discussion

Post by That Kode Guy » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:36 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Eye of n00t's Week 6 RP</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>what's the point of Dream Team?[/quote]<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Chad the Inhaler's Week 6 RP</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>Can we at least give the dream team some fighting chance so it's not just literally a bye week where the opponent is forced to RP :V[/quote]I thought the point of Dream Team was not to have another competitive team, but to have filler bots, and instead of trying to integrate BYEs into the schedule, which would have been an absolute bitch to pull off considering how scheduling works. I didn't feel the need to try and cheese two bots in the same weight class into the play-offs, that's why I entered Count Bleck in the first place, as a filler bot meant to lose every week. MEANT to. Obviously quality of other bots' design, or stats, or people forfeiting, are likely to interfere, but I can't control everything, nor do I want or need to.

While, yes, I'm kind of irritated with how Eye of n00t was statted, that by no means dictates how I would write for it, and I haven't even had to yet. Same with Chad the Inhaler. The thing with Chad, however, is that it just has too much speed for me to really take seriously; it's gonna whiff a lot, and honestly a high speed ram like that will probably crumple or at least do something of note to its 4 armour anyway. :V

If you guys want to argue with me about it, though, honestly you're wasting your time. Arguing over meme robots is ridiculous.
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Ruination: The Upheaval - Discussion

Post by NWOWWE » Sat Apr 14, 2018 1:53 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>Arguing over meme robots is ridiculous.[/quote]I thought so to, but here we are anyway. :suicide:
Area51Escapee,Jan 30 2011 wrote:
Spatula,Jan 29 2011 wrote: I should go 3-1 this week but it'll probably be something like 0-4 or 0-5.
It sucks going 0-5. You lose all 4 of your bot fights for the week and you also lose at life.

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Ruination: The Upheaval - Discussion

Post by The_Angry_Goat » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:03 pm

Quite simply put it bugs me that no rp I could possibly put up for the robot will be taken seriously. In situations when i have the advantage, I should really win. There
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Ruination: The Upheaval - Discussion

Post by That Kode Guy » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:07 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>The_Angry_Goat</dt><dd>Apr 14 2018, 02:03 PM</dd></dl><div>Quite simply put it bugs me that no rp I could possibly put up for the robot will be taken seriously. In situations when i have the advantage, I should really win. There
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Ruination: The Upheaval - Discussion

Post by NWOWWE » Sat Apr 14, 2018 2:08 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>The_Angry_Goat</dt><dd>Apr 14 2018, 02:03 PM</dd></dl><div>Quite simply put it bugs me that no rp I could possibly put up for the robot will be taken seriously. In situations when i have the advantage, I should really win. There
Area51Escapee,Jan 30 2011 wrote:
Spatula,Jan 29 2011 wrote: I should go 3-1 this week but it'll probably be something like 0-4 or 0-5.
It sucks going 0-5. You lose all 4 of your bot fights for the week and you also lose at life.

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Ruination: The Upheaval - Discussion

Post by Madman » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:09 pm

I think it's pretty clear that he gave Chad poor stats on purpose. If you'd read the whole debate on discord before sounding off (I know you're sick, but still) you'd know that the idea with both of our bots was never to cheese it into the playoffs. It was to enter something with a stat spread/approach that was either unique in its division or experimental while still ultimately being mediocre, to basically act as something fun that could still win a few fights here and there against opponents with poor stats/poor RPs, which is exactly what happened. Both Chad and EoN got an FF win and beat an opponent who really messed up on their RP (Alex tries to rush and smother with a 5 speed bot, FFS). This idea of these bots being a glorified bye week definitely wasn't the case in CBC2, where we were encouraged to enter fun and experimental stuff that wasn't TOO tryhard, and I took that as my guiding principle.

This bot doesn't count for my team anyways, so Idon't directly care how it does. It's just the principle that annoys me. If a bot should win a fight based on stats and RPs, it should win a fight.

As for incorporating a bye? Easy. Just enter (Bye Team) as the 28th team on Challonge in each division and count every match against that 'team' as a 45-0 win. Done.

As for the argument about Dream Team being the 'funner' option that people have brought up on discord, I agree that Dream Team is a funner option than a bye, but it's still kinda 'meh'. It would be ore fun if people actually entered legitimate oddball designs and stat spreads that are weird but could potentially work or have that ONE good matchup type, like BOX. vs some deathspinner. It leaves room for something to unexpectedly succeed and spawn a meme, or something to fail brutally in a way that it wasn't predictably, explicitly designed to. That's more interesting to me. It also creates some actual stakes, which tend to make things more exciting, and having a bot that's 80% gonna lose but COULD win keeps anyone reading more engaged than knowing the outcome at the end. Yes, Bleck blows up again. 13 times. Lemme just skip to the credits. If Bleck blows up 12 times and wins once because it dies after 3 hits instead of 1, I'm going to be actually reading its fights to see if it can pull it off that once. Bots with a lot of weaknesses but a single big strength or just an unorthodox approach are also interesting to RP against, because they present a (fairly basic - as it should be) puzzle and not just a situation where you can write, "ram him and win" for an RP.
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Ruination: The Upheaval - Discussion

Post by V900 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:44 pm

Oh man, I think Neglected Waterbug's first loss of the tourney is going to be to an intentionally bad bot :v:
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Ruination: The Upheaval - Discussion

Post by GF93 » Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:59 pm

OK, and that's all my stuff in for this week. I'm feeling quietly confident overall -- ideally I'd like to be able to get another win for Dreadnought (maybe?), but coming out on top in the LW Battle of the Flippers would be brilliant as well. Ayame VS Mushroom Cloud is one of those fights I've simultaneously been dreading, but also been looking forward to (considering how strong both bots are, and how you have the former's speed versus the latter's power), so I'm really looking forward to seeing how that goes. :P

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Ruination: The Upheaval - Discussion

Post by That Kode Guy » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:06 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Madman</dt><dd>Apr 14 2018, 10:09 PM</dd></dl><div>I think it's pretty clear that he gave Chad poor stats on purpose. If you'd read the whole debate on discord before sounding off (I know you're sick, but still) you'd know that the idea with both of our bots was never to cheese it into the playoffs. It was to enter something with a stat spread/approach that was either unique in its division or experimental while still ultimately being mediocre, to basically act as something fun that could still win a few fights here and there against opponents with poor stats/poor RPs, which is exactly what happened. Both Chad and EoN got an FF win and beat an opponent who really messed up on their RP (Alex tries to rush and smother with a 5 speed bot, FFS). This idea of these bots being a glorified bye week definitely wasn't the case in CBC2, where we were encouraged to enter fun and experimental stuff that wasn't TOO tryhard, and I took that as my guiding principle.

This bot doesn't count for my team anyways, so Idon't directly care how it does. It's just the principle that annoys me. If a bot should win a fight based on stats and RPs, it should win a fight.

As for incorporating a bye? Easy. Just enter (Bye Team) as the 28th team on Challonge in each division and count every match against that 'team' as a 45-0 win. Done.

As for the argument about Dream Team being the 'funner' option that people have brought up on discord, I agree that Dream Team is a funner option than a bye, but it's still kinda 'meh'. It would be ore fun if people actually entered legitimate oddball designs and stat spreads that are weird but could potentially work or have that ONE good matchup type, like BOX. vs some deathspinner. It leaves room for something to unexpectedly succeed and spawn a meme, or something to fail brutally in a way that it wasn't predictably, explicitly designed to. That's more interesting to me. It also creates some actual stakes, which tend to make things more exciting, and having a bot that's 80% gonna lose but COULD win keeps anyone reading more engaged than knowing the outcome at the end. Yes, Bleck blows up again. 13 times. Lemme just skip to the credits. If Bleck blows up 12 times and wins once because it dies after 3 hits instead of 1, I'm going to be actually reading its fights to see if it can pull it off that once. Bots with a lot of weaknesses but a single big strength or just an unorthodox approach are also interesting to RP against, because they present a (fairly basic - as it should be) puzzle and not just a situation where you can write, "ram him and win" for an RP.[/quote]Yes, Laz, you are correct. A bot that has a better RP, design, and stats should beat the other bot. That wasn't the problem. The problem... is that you are trying to tell me that Eye of n00t was intended to be a mediocre entry while, actually, it is not. It's basically a more optimized version of Danger Noodle, which is already a decent robot, and you even freaking gave it optimized stats to match. Again, I haven't written any results for it, but I tell you now that I would treat it as a treated any other entrant, regardless of the intent. Just... please don't say you intended it to be a joke entrant when you didn't enter it that way.

As for BYEs, if I incorporated them, then there would be skewed records between conferences and that would be plain weird. In any case, it's hard to schedule a tournament with a number of entrants that isn't a multiple of 4. I mean, I could have bugged NFX to enter some stuff, but the guy was burnt out so that's when Dream Team came into play.

Also, it's not like we haven't had winless bots before but I still read (or try to read) every result on the site. Regardless, I'll concede to your opinion on that, but I'm just trying to explain why I entered Count Bleck and statting it intentionally to kill itself, instead of something else like The Kaleidoscopic God or Libra.

And lol Discord... I'm literally popping in on mobile to see how people are doing. :V
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Ruination: The Upheaval - Discussion

Post by The Monsterworks » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:30 pm

To weigh in on this debate just a bit, I agree with Laz and Gabe that we should try not to just have auto-lose entries if we're gonna do a filler team. That definitely wasn't the intent of Dream Team in CBC2, at least.

Where I'm calling BS is the idea that Laz entered Eye of N00t to be mediocre. He didn't and can protest until he's blue in the face. That was a ruthlessly optimized deathspinner that he RPed really hard for and thathe he wanted to make the playoffs with. Chad, I can believe was intentionally a mediocre one trick pony, but EoN is a good bot. Really, let's just replace it now that we're clear on the intent of the team and leave this all behind. Even by ARC standards, his is a silly argument.
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Ruination: The Upheaval - Discussion

Post by BEES » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:31 am

Oh great, people talking about Eye of N00t the week that I'm fighting it. Which means I can't talk about it. :P

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Post by attackfrog » Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:41 pm

Aaaand I had to write that match. Hope you all think I treated it fairly.
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Ruination: The Upheaval - Discussion

Post by Shaba117 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:31 pm

Week 6: 2-2

LW: The Thieving Magpie won via split decision and I consider myself lucky to have the Win. I underestimated Ramshock's wedging capability and it almost damn near cost me (However, it's kinda difficult to tell when all you have for visual reference is a blurry lego/cardboard model, just sayin'). Anyway (thankfully), the only damage to Magpie was a gash on the right side panel from the arena hazards, which was a quick fix and good as new once again.

MW: Harpy did surprisingly well and KO'd Lulver, largely in part due to the hazards, and only sustained minimal damage to the plow. So far, Harpy has been the most successful of Team Stealth's bots. However, it is in a tough division. We'll see if it will be capable of making the playoff rounds.

HW: Whereas the arena hazards helped me win the LW and MW fights, it looks like they cost me this match. Death Metal was racking up damage points against Klarinette, but I was relying fully on my drive to keep away from Klarinette enough to keep the bar spun up in order to cause damage. That ended after the hazards damaged the drive on one side. Then, the repeated hammer blows on the top cover caused it to cave onto the weapon motor shaft, effectively seizing it-welp, there goes another Etek :/ along with replacing the top cover. *sigh*

SHW: Death Metal, shockingly, did NOT take on the most damage this time around. That honor has gone to Triple-6, who was pretty much reduced to a smoldering wreck after losing to BEEF King. Once my flipper was damaged, it was game over. Horizontals are this bot's biggest weakness and-yep...T6 needs to be pretty much rebuilt from the frame, and that needs welding repairs, as well. *joins the already lengthy queue for the welders and the CNC* Hopefully, the repairs can be done in time for my next match. At least there seems to be a bit of a delay with things here, so that's good. :)
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Ruination: The Upheaval - Discussion

Post by GF93 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:11 pm

4-0, absolutely fantastic&#33; All the matches went pretty well for the most part, and even managed to grab a win for Dreadnought against a very strong MeltyBrain spinner along the way. I'm more than happy with how this week went, so hopefully I can keep the momentum going next week and beyond&#33;

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