The new CFL Rules & Regulations

Post by **Badnik96** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:30 am

oh shit

well I'm going to go rebuild phantasmic slammer again

Siphai · Post by **Siphai** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 11:55 am

I think the idea that rammers are gonna take the 5 points they invested in wedge and shove them all in armor is kinda exagerrated. Rammers will have to invest in torque now given that even when they get under an opponent they will need torque to push the robot around. Otherwise they'll be doing it at such a slow pace that the other guy will just be able to drive off.

Hammers will have a tough time getting KOs (other than the one infamous one) but its not like they had an easy time prior to that. Hammers had to invest in wedge so you end up with MF and Dr. P at 10 weapon. idk.

I dont think weapons should do damage when theyre less than the armor stat, because its not very logical. And in battlebots, even if it didnt do a lot of damage they would generally give points in the damage category for bringing the weapon into play (as long as the opponent didnt do so much more damage than him).

idk what do yall think

NWOWWE · Post by **NWOWWE** » Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:13 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>I think the idea that rammers are gonna take the 5 points they invested in wedge and shove them all in armor is kinda exagerrated. Rammers will have to invest in torque now given that even when they get under an opponent they will need torque to push the robot around. Otherwise they'll be doing it at such a slow pace that the other guy will just be able to drive off. [/quote]I get what you're saying, but I still think more points will be going to armor and with the new rules that really starts to hurt spinners more since spinners are losing points overall.

Also an argument could still be made for torque mostly being irreverent on a wedge bot. If you wedge someone it really doesn't matter what kind of torque you have since you're getting their wheels off the ground. You can't push back against someone with no leverage. Someone like Jesus Built My Hotrod would really need to worry about torque since he's a pure pusher and can't get under anyone to help himself out.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>Hammers will have a tough time getting KOs (other than the one infamous one) but its not like they had an easy time prior to that. Hammers had to invest in wedge so you end up with MF and Dr. P at 10 weapon. idk.[/quote]There's been more than one infamous one.

But no seriously, to be fair a hammer bot isn't necessarily obligated to have a wedge. True it can make their lives easier all things considered, but it's not an absolute requirement. Even still, it's pretty much gone from it being fairly difficult for them to score a KO to near impossible when fighting rammers.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>I dont think weapons should do damage when theyre less than the armor stat, because its not very logical. And in battlebots, even if it didnt do a lot of damage they would generally give points in the damage category for bringing the weapon into play (as long as the opponent didnt do so much more damage than him). [/quote] Okay your argument here doesn't really make sense for two main reasons.

First, you're using a real life comparative which doesn't use stat points and so we have no way of knowing if it's even applicable to the argument at hand. Does a given spinner have 8 weapon or 12? Does the other bot have 6 armor or 9? Hell if I know. Secondly you said "even if it doesn't do a lot of damage...", well that's the gag isn't it? Even a little damage is actually causing damage! This ruleset (and your own personal view) implies that NO damage can be caused at all! This means theres no way for a lower weapon bot to win damage points via small amounts of damage piling up during the match.

I maintain I do not agree with this no damage idea and I need to hear a more rational argument if you want to push this idea forward.

Finally I'd also like my issue with lifters addressed as well.

Siphai · Post by **Siphai** » Mon Dec 23, 2013 8:15 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>NWOWWE</dt><dd>Dec 20 2013, 12:13 PM</dd></dl><div><blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>I think the idea that rammers are gonna take the 5 points they invested in wedge and shove them all in armor is kinda exagerrated. Rammers will have to invest in torque now given that even when they get under an opponent they will need torque to push the robot around. Otherwise they'll be doing it at such a slow pace that the other guy will just be able to drive off. [/quote]I get what you're saying, but I still think more points will be going to armor and with the new rules that really starts to hurt spinners more since spinners are losing points overall.

Also an argument could still be made for torque mostly being irreverent on a wedge bot. If you wedge someone it really doesn't matter what kind of torque you have since you're getting their wheels off the ground. You can't push back against someone with no leverage. Someone like Jesus Built My Hotrod would really need to worry about torque since he's a pure pusher and can't get under anyone to help himself out.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>Hammers will have a tough time getting KOs (other than the one infamous one) but its not like they had an easy time prior to that. Hammers had to invest in wedge so you end up with MF and Dr. P at 10 weapon. idk.[/quote]There's been more than one infamous one.

But no seriously, to be fair a hammer bot isn't necessarily obligated to have a wedge. True it can make their lives easier all things considered, but it's not an absolute requirement. Even still, it's pretty much gone from it being fairly difficult for them to score a KO to near impossible when fighting rammers.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>I dont think weapons should do damage when theyre less than the armor stat, because its not very logical. And in battlebots, even if it didnt do a lot of damage they would generally give points in the damage category for bringing the weapon into play (as long as the opponent didnt do so much more damage than him). [/quote] Okay your argument here doesn't really make sense for two main reasons.

First, you're using a real life comparative which doesn't use stat points and so we have no way of knowing if it's even applicable to the argument at hand. Does a given spinner have 8 weapon or 12? Does the other bot have 6 armor or 9? Hell if I know. Secondly you said "even if it doesn't do a lot of damage...", well that's the gag isn't it? Even a little damage is actually causing damage! This ruleset (and your own personal view) implies that NO damage can be caused at all! This means theres no way for a lower weapon bot to win damage points via small amounts of damage piling up during the match.

I maintain I do not agree with this no damage idea and I need to hear a more rational argument if you want to push this idea forward.

Finally I'd also like my issue with lifters addressed as well.[/quote]Torque has changed that it is no longer irrelevant on a wedge bot. It defines how fast you can push a robot, whether you are under them or not. Meaning that a wedge rammer with one torque would be pushing another robot at an inredibly slow pace: slow enough such that another robot could literally drive off before being driven to any hazards. It is necessary for all rammers.

A hammer is absolutely required to have a wedge to be successful but thats my own opinion.

When I said 'not a lot of damage' I meant anoything more than paint chipping. In battlebots a robot would already win damage and strategy points just for using its weapon, regardless of damage, to help balance robots like sob and tminus. (which is essentially equivalent to what you are asking). Of course this is unless the opponent causes more damage than them.

Lifters get all the advantages of a rammer (since they only have to invest 1 point in weapon power) while also getting the advantage of a lower wedge and being able to completely control and even flip opponents. No other design gets this, at such a low cost. A little more investment (3-4 instead of 1-2) isn't much to ask for, especially in the face of no wedge stat. I can't think of a single other weapon that gets away with that.

NWOWWE · Post by **NWOWWE** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 9:32 am

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>Torque has changed that it is no longer irrelevant on a wedge bot. It defines how fast you can push a robot, whether you are under them or not. Meaning that a wedge rammer with one torque would be pushing another robot at an inredibly slow pace: slow enough such that another robot could literally drive off before being driven to any hazards. It is necessary for all rammers.[/quote]Only your rule set says absolutely nothing like that. It still says if you're torque is higher you win a pushing match, plain and simple.

Again I ask why the torque ratio matters if the bot getting wedged is completely off the floor. Also, surely a clamper could prevent a bot escaping regardless what it's torque was.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>When I said 'not a lot of damage' I meant anoything more than paint chipping.[/quote] Okay... but that doesn't really answer my issue about the "no damage" thing. And you're basically saying an 11 powered hammer couldn't do much else but cosmetic damage to a 9 armored rammer. That doesn't seem logical to me.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>In battlebots a robot would already win damage and strategy points just for using its weapon, regardless of damage, to help balance robots like sob and tminus. (which is essentially equivalent to what you are asking). Of course this is unless the opponent causes more damage than them.[/quote]Ummm, I'm confused. Are you saying this is a bad thing? Logically I would expect a bot with an active weapon to win damage if it was using it's weapon throughout the fight. And if the rammer managed to exploit the hazards well enough he could win damage! And I would think that if the active weapon bot spent the majority of the fight using his weapon on his opponent he would have a pretty good chance at taking strategy.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>Lifters get all the advantages of a rammer (since they only have to invest 1 point in weapon power) while also getting the advantage of a lower wedge and being able to completely control and even flip opponents. No other design gets this, at such a low cost.[/quote]You're assuming that all lifters only ever use one point to begin with. I freely admitted that one point was rather ridiculous. Plus you also have to take into account how well the lifting mechanism is designed. It's not a guarantee that they'll have total control of the opponent the minute they get them on the lifter.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>A little more investment (3-4 instead of 1-2) isn't much to ask for, especially in the face of no wedge stat. I can't think of a single other weapon that gets away with that.[/quote]It is when you're saying that 3-4 is still a low-end lifter. You're still saying that a lifter needs at least 5 to be mostly foolproof (like you're assuming a 1 powered lifter to currently be).

playzooki · Post by **playzooki** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 1:29 pm

About the lifters: Corrupted politician

Post by **Badnik96** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:11 pm

so we need torque now?

well shit

NFX · Post by **NFX** » Tue Dec 24, 2013 4:21 pm

Torque was useless previously, the most Torque on a half-decent bot was around 3 or 4. Compare that to the 15 or 16 Weapon you say knocking about.

Siphai · Post by **Siphai** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:20 pm

CUSTOM FANTASY LEAGUE - RULES AND REGULATIONS

Are you a fan of Battlebots? Maybe Robot Wars? Did you ever want to know what it's like? Well, here's your chance in our exclusive robot style RPGs! All you need to do is follow three simple steps to join up.

1. Create your own bots in some sort of computer-aided-design (CAD) program. It can be anything from Rhinoceros3D to Google SketchUp to MSPaint. Basically, you just need a picture of what your bot looks like. If you don't know how to draw or do CAD, you can always ask someone to do it for you on the CAD Request thread in our forums.

2. Enter stats for your bots (see below for stat system).

3. Role play with your bot on a weekly basis. All this means is you have to see who your opponent is for that week, and write up a strategy against them in the Role Playing Board section of the forum. Don't worry, your role play doesn't have to be very detailed. Short and simple works, too. However, detail doesn't hurt, so if you want to really go all out in your strategy, you go for it.

SIGN-UP INFORMATION

Everyone enters 4 bots, one from each weight class (LW, MW, HW, SHW) and assigns them stats using the point system.

- The battles will take place in a Round Robin style (as opposed to the traditional tournament style) in which each bot will face every other bot once with playoffs afterward to determine the champion of each weight class.

- No double entering the competition (that means no smurf accounts or anything like that).

STAFF RULES

- The founder(s) of the tournament and the writing staff for a tournament are obligated to check ALL entries in the competition before the season begins, to avoid stat and design discrepancies mid-way through the season.

ROLE PLAY RULES

In these leagues, we have always made it a priority to focus on both aspects of robotic combat: the design and the driver. It has been said before that a good driver with a poor robot can beat a bad driver with a great robot the majority of the time and I, personally agree with that notion. This is why it is important to know the proper way to strategize and win a battle against a formidable opponent. First let

Siphai · Post by **Siphai** » Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:27 pm

Final Draft hopefully. All suggested changes were made.