Sorting out the rules for future tournaments

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That Kode Guy
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Sorting out the rules for future tournaments

Post by That Kode Guy » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:40 pm

Okay. Alex has wanted to do this for a long time, and tbh so have I. Something's come up that has made me incredibly pissed off. Well, it's time to redo the rules. Prepare for a rant.

(this is probably going to hurt my chances at LW this week but I don't care, the rules are more important)

I was RP'ing against Alex MacWilliams' Dr. Pepperdine this week, and I remembered the rule on turrets. Oh. Sorry. "Rule". Under the current system, a rotating turret for an axe detracts from the weapon power since it gives an axebot free reign where to hit, within range of the hammer, and thus because it helps the axe out a lot it is under the multiple weapon rule. It's the same sort of thing with Conqueror's suspension I brought up in Crazy Bots; Conqueror's suspension helps it to give it too much of an advantage, so it gets detracted. Anyway, this is currently about turrets, so... Pepperdine gets its weapon power retracted. So it gets 9 weapon power. That is quite respectable, actually. However, Week 1 had Pepperdine KO'ing Zombie Killer in barely over a minute and a half. Zombie Killer has 7 armour. Logistically there is NO way Zombie Killer should have been KO'd. At the very most Pepperdine should have won by decision, not KO. Which is where the other thing comes in. Badnik wrote the result, and at this point I'm pretty sure he didn't know about this rule since it is NOT IN THE RULES AND REGULATIONS. So he can't really be to real blame here. Is 11 weapon still power enough to KO Zombie Killer like that? There's a chance, but probably not. However, there's more to it than that.

Alex Valentine (GF93) brought Decapitator into LoRE with a power hammer bonus. Now technically he's not wrong, because power hammer bonuses are IN THE RULES. However, most of the writers aren't using them. I know I'm not, and Josh certainly isn't, nor is Alex MW. What about Lian and Badnik? If Badnik is actually using the power hammer bonus in his fights, than Pepperdine has around 15-16. Definitely enough to knock out Zombie Killer. But then Alex doesn't specify that. What are people supposed to think? GF93 didn't take kindly to being told the rule wasn't in effect, and I can't blame him at this point. In fact, I will even argue against my own SHW, Teresa. Teresa has a pneumatic spike that can supposedly punch holes in robots with a weapon power many points below opponent armour. Because of the rules. I kinda feel bad about abusing that because I realize that it's incredibly absurd for that to happen. But it's happening. Teresa punched holes in Hephaestus, Tali'Zorah, Nine, Phantasmic Slammer, etc. That should not be happening.

What is going on? Why are things that are totally not supposed to happen... happening? Well, people are having incredibly different perceptions on the rules because they are fucking clear as mud. Turret rule's not there, yet people follow it. Power hammer bonuses are there, yet me, Josh, and Alex don't follow them. Pneumatic spike rule's there, and it's honestly retarded. Same with the weapon-to-armour KO rule, wedge effectiveness (that's my own opinion though), rollers (Tali'Zorah in specific) not being in the rules, etc. The rules haven't been updated for god knows how long. Writers and competitors remember rules from way back and try to implement them, linking back to when they were in effect. And maybe they are still in effect. Because the rules haven't been updated.

I think it's time for an update. If anybody (mostly Alex) would like to help me with rewriting the rule guide, please let me know. CFL rules need clarity and the current ones help no one.

[/end rant]
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NFX
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Sorting out the rules for future tournaments

Post by NFX » Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:48 pm

On the subject of the turret rule, I thought it was similar to the multiple weaponry rule of deducting two points for each weapon. We could combine the two and say that two Weapon points are deducted for each degree of freedom, e.g. a turret, a secondary weapon (axe and lifter), or some other thing that mechanically alters your robot's fighting methods, such as Conqueror's suspension. I think it would kill that particular flock of birds.

But with the new stat system, I imagine it probably is time for a new series of rules, personally. Back under the four-stat system, you didn't really get much more Speed than around 7 or 8, and rarely did Armour exceed that value. Now, with the six-stat system and eight extra stat points to play with, we're starting to see Speed and Armour stats in double figures, as well as power spinners reaching levels we've rarely seen before. It's kind of weird to have a new system with old rules, especially when Torque and Wedge were completely nonexistant up until the change.
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Sorting out the rules for future tournaments

Post by That Kode Guy » Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:20 pm

Okay, quite a bit of progress was made today and I'm glad for the Skype session we had, happy with all the effiency guys. :)
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playzooki
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Sorting out the rules for future tournaments

Post by playzooki » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:58 am

cough
cough
what about my stat thing.

Probably Rob
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Sorting out the rules for future tournaments

Post by Probably Rob » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:40 am

In a tl;dr version, what exactly needs changing?

And no Play', yours just sucked, dawg. Too complex, and isn't really needed.

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Sorting out the rules for future tournaments

Post by playzooki » Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:54 am

That was a joke.
And if its too complicated... Im 12.

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Sorting out the rules for future tournaments

Post by Siphai » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:25 am

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Rob Collins</dt><dd>Aug 15 2013, 06:40 AM</dd></dl><div>In a tl;dr version, what exactly needs changing?

And no Play', yours just sucked, dawg. Too complex, and isn't really needed.[/quote]There are things in the current stat system that either aren't very well defined, or poorly implemented. The things that aren't very well defined are confusing to newcomers as people who know the stat system arbitrarily pick and choose which rules to abide, even though they're there/aren't there in the pinned ARC Rules and Regulations. It's due for an update.

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Sorting out the rules for future tournaments

Post by playzooki » Thu Aug 15, 2013 9:27 am

Sure is&#33;

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Sorting out the rules for future tournaments

Post by GF93 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:21 pm

I'd had a look through the rules beforehand, and before I implemented measures that would later become controversial, such as Conqueror's suspension and Decapitator's axe bonus, I had checked in the then-current rules to make sure they'd be alright. They were covered, so I'd assumed it'd be alright to do so. With certain aspects such as those becoming redundant now, I think they should be addressed to prevent any other such incidents.
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Sorting out the rules for future tournaments

Post by playzooki » Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:42 am

Is this still happening? It should do.

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