Ruination: The Beginning Discussion

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That Kode Guy
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Ruination: The Beginning Discussion

Post by That Kode Guy » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:56 am

Just one more result for me to write...
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Ruination: The Beginning Discussion

Post by That Kode Guy » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:11 pm

And there. Semi-final results posted...
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Ruination: The Beginning Discussion

Post by GF93 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:17 pm

Yep, I knew it.

Fucking invincible undercutters, why can't I ever defeat them?
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Ruination: The Beginning Discussion

Post by Badnik96 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:27 pm

ok

i'm fucking done with this

have fun getting your sweep kody
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Ruination: The Beginning Discussion

Post by GF93 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:33 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Badnik96</dt><dd>Mar 10 2013&#44; 12:27 PM</dd></dl><div> have fun getting your sweep kody [/quote]
I know the feeling, man. For me however, it also feels like this-

Image
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Ruination: The Beginning Discussion

Post by That Kode Guy » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:40 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Badnik96</dt><dd>Mar 10 2013&#44; 12:27 PM</dd></dl><div> ok

i'm fucking done with this

have fun getting your sweep kody [/quote]
ExCUSE me? All the fights were decided ENTIRELY fairly. And that shot is worse than anything Spatula or GF93 have said the entire tournament.

Believe me, I'm actually not in the greatest of joys actually having 3 bots in the Finals, tbh. I wanted the Finals to be more diverse than this. But we did what we had to do.

Your warn level is up. No more of your smart mouth, got it?
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Ruination: The Beginning Discussion

Post by NFX » Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:57 pm

Okay, I can see that tempers are starting to get frayed here. If you didn't manage to make a final, then that's a shame, especially if it happened to be your only shot. GF, Badnik, how do you think Lian feels right now, having made the playoffs in three divisions and failing to make the final in any of them? But that doesn't mean that your opponents are invincible. Agent X beat Tax Cutter during the season. Hector LeMans made the playoffs by the skin of his teeth. It doesn't mean that ANY opponent is invincible. It's just a case of whether or not your robot is designed to do well against them, or if you can strategise well enough to compensate for your robot's shortcomings.

The way I see it, you have two options here. You can either bitch and whine about how you were screwed by the writers, which I don't agree happened at all. Frankly, Kody, Josh and Martijn have hosted an excellent tournament up to this point, and they don't deserve any of the shit you're giving them. Or you can take your robots, analyse where and how your matches went wrong, where your robots could be improved, and return for the next tournament with the problems in the designs hopefully solved.

Take a look at Kraze as an example - he started out in Armageddon as a box with a slope at one end and a flipper. Granted, he did manage to make the playoffs, but he got knocked out straight away, and didn't even break even. I wanted to do better with him, so I redesigned him, solved some of the problems that I'd seen with him, and returned for the next season. And after that season, when I'd gotten knocked out in the playoffs again, I redesigned Kraze again, plugging more holes in the design, and solving more problems. This season, I managed to make the playoffs again with Kraze, but I still lost to Revolver Ocelot. That means there are still problems with Kraze that can be solved, and still ways to improve my machines for future tournaments.

Unless your robot goes undefeated - which no machine in this tournament has - your robot can still be improved. Now you can either complain about your opponents being invincible, which I assure you they are not, or moan about the writing staff being biased, but I believe they are a lot better than that. Your other option is to accept that there are scenarios that your robots aren't designed well enough to deal with, and then redesign them so that they can deal with as many situations as possible.

Sorry about the length of this, I was just surprised at the reactions of some people over the playoff results, and I thought I'd try to sort things out a little.
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Ruination: The Beginning Discussion

Post by GF93 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:23 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>NFX</dt><dd>Mar 10 2013&#44; 12:57 PM</dd></dl><div> Okay, I can see that tempers are starting to get frayed here. If you didn't manage to make a final, then that's a shame, especially if it happened to be your only shot. GF, Badnik, how do you think Lian feels right now, having made the playoffs in three divisions and failing to make the final in any of them? But that doesn't mean that your opponents are invincible. Agent X beat Tax Cutter during the season. Hector LeMans made the playoffs by the skin of his teeth. It doesn't mean that ANY opponent is invincible. It's just a case of whether or not your robot is designed to do well against them, or if you can strategise well enough to compensate for your robot's shortcomings.

The way I see it, you have two options here. You can either bitch and whine about how you were screwed by the writers, which I don't agree happened at all. Frankly, Kody, Josh and Martijn have hosted an excellent tournament up to this point, and they don't deserve any of the shit you're giving them. Or you can take your robots, analyse where and how your matches went wrong, where your robots could be improved, and return for the next tournament with the problems in the designs hopefully solved.

Take a look at Kraze as an example - he started out in Armageddon as a box with a slope at one end and a flipper. Granted, he did manage to make the playoffs, but he got knocked out straight away, and didn't even break even. I wanted to do better with him, so I redesigned him, solved some of the problems that I'd seen with him, and returned for the next season. And after that season, when I'd gotten knocked out in the playoffs again, I redesigned Kraze again, plugging more holes in the design, and solving more problems. This season, I managed to make the playoffs again with Kraze, but I still lost to Revolver Ocelot. That means there are still problems with Kraze that can be solved, and still ways to improve my machines for future tournaments.

Unless your robot goes undefeated - which no machine in this tournament has - your robot can still be improved. Now you can either complain about your opponents being invincible, which I assure you they are not, or moan about the writing staff being biased, but I believe they are a lot better than that. Your other option is to accept that there are scenarios that your robots aren't designed well enough to deal with, and then redesign them so that they can deal with as many situations as possible.

Sorry about the length of this, I was just surprised at the reactions of some people over the playoff results, and I thought I'd try to sort things out a little. [/quote]
Nick- I didn't mean to come off as trying to attack anyone over it, nor was I accusing it of being unfair. I know they have hosted an excellent tournament, I've never doubted that for a second, but for me, I just feel quite...miffed over the result.
I'm not disputing it on the grounds of unfairness or anything for even a second, but I just don't feel happy with it at all.

Considering that even though I'd completely overhauled my strategy, foreseeing and planning out everything I could to ensure that I could at least beat him on a close win, it was incredibly annoying to lose to an undercutter again (Which I can never win against no matter what I do) on such a close margin.
I don't know if it's just me, but it gives me the feeling that the more effort I put into an RP, the less chance I have of winning.

What made it even more annoying was that had I won, I'd have faced Hector, whom I'd have had more of a likelihood of winning against and therefore claiming the championship. But instead, you have another Kody vs Josh matchup, with the former now in the position to more likely than not, win every single weight category.

At the very least, I'd have appreciated the potential chance at my first Championship, but no. Reach up too high, get smacked down by an undercutter, and once again I get zilch for all the hard work I've put in.
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Ruination: The Beginning Discussion

Post by That Kode Guy » Sun Mar 10, 2013 1:26 pm

Sweep all weight classes??? Um.... HELLO? Anti-Virus lost. :P

And please, please please PLEASE stop with the illusion that long-ass RPs are automatically better. You could shave off 2/3rds of that and have basically the same thing. You put too much effort into making them LONG. You don't need to.
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Ruination: The Beginning Discussion

Post by prince palatine » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:31 pm

Welp, just got fucking bum-rushed out of the playoffs.

*Punches self in the face*

This is what happens when I do everything at the last minute, I'm such a retard :(

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Ruination: The Beginning Discussion

Post by GF93 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:38 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>KodeBreaker</dt><dd>Mar 10 2013&#44; 01:26 PM</dd></dl><div> Sweep all weight classes??? Um.... HELLO? Anti-Virus lost. :P

And please, please please PLEASE stop with the illusion that long-ass RPs are automatically better. You could shave off 2/3rds of that and have basically the same thing. You put too much effort into making them LONG. You don't need to. [/quote]
Well...three out of a possible four- that's still the majority by far, especially with opponents who only have one playoff entrant. Even then with the matchups, you're guaranteed to win at least two of them.


As for the bit on why my RPs are long, I feel that I have to cover everything I can properly- I mean, even with unfavourable matchups, you can still win with good driving strategies, as we saw with Hammer & Nails beating Hubris and Luna beating Braveheart, and I do try to go with that as much as I can.

Basically, I do so because I want to put the effort in even if I'm at the disadvantage, and not go into it half-assed. Because I actually want to try.
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Ruination: The Beginning Discussion

Post by NWOWWE » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:54 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>GF93</dt><dd>Mar 10 2013&#44; 03:38 PM</dd></dl><div> Even then with the matchups, you're guaranteed to win at least two of them. [/quote]
Crud... :(

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>Basically, I do so because I want to put the effort in even if I'm at the disadvantage, and not go into it half-assed. Because I actually want to try.[/quote]
No doubt, though at some point it does get needlessly excessive. But fear not, Philip is still the undisputed champion of that. ;)
Area51Escapee,Jan 30 2011 wrote:
Spatula,Jan 29 2011 wrote: I should go 3-1 this week but it'll probably be something like 0-4 or 0-5.
It sucks going 0-5. You lose all 4 of your bot fights for the week and you also lose at life.

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Ruination: The Beginning Discussion

Post by GF93 » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:02 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>NWOWWE</dt><dd>Mar 10 2013&#44; 02:54 PM</dd></dl><div>
No doubt, though at some point it does get needlessly excessive.&nbsp; But fear not, Philip is still the undisputed champion of that. ;)
[/quote]
Fair enough. Even then though, sometimes- like now for instance- I do get the feeling that I get punished for writing long, in-depth RPs. =/


<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>NWOWWE</dt><dd>Mar 10 2013&#44; 02:54 PM</dd></dl><div>
Crud... :(&nbsp;
[/quote]
But hopefully that shouldn't be the case- in both fights, I'll be rooting for you, Josh. One request, though- once you're in there with Tax Cutter, kill it.
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Ruination: The Beginning Discussion

Post by NWOWWE » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:05 pm

Eh, no one is really punished for long RP's outside of tounge-in-cheek jokes and the anguished cries of the results writers that have to consistantly refer back to the RP in question. If you can live with that, you're made in the shade. :lol:
Area51Escapee,Jan 30 2011 wrote:
Spatula,Jan 29 2011 wrote: I should go 3-1 this week but it'll probably be something like 0-4 or 0-5.
It sucks going 0-5. You lose all 4 of your bot fights for the week and you also lose at life.

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Ruination: The Beginning Discussion

Post by prince palatine » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:08 pm

Well, it's back to the drawing board for me I guess. But lets look back at the season for me...

LW: Hit a fantastic run, finally beating it's sworn enemy Dr Robotnik and beat deadly favourites Anti-Virus and Frequency. He finished top in the league section for the second year running, I know we don't count that as a trophy, but it feels like one to me. TSA has finished top of the league section two years running, no one can take that away from him. But alas, he got destroyed by the magnificent mind of Spatula and Annoying Box Rush. I have no hard feelings with him in this match, I felt he deserved to get something out of the game, but such a shame that it came at my expense and TSA got humiliated by a rammer once more....

What's for the future?: TSA is full of weaknesses and fails, he's been retired and will now have a TSA 2 take his place (Random question, are we/can we have matches for 3rd and 4 place?)

MW: Shocked the world (Or this forum anyways) When he made his unprecedented streak and eliminated the much fancied Hubris. I was not expecting him to win here, but he exceed all expectations this season and managed to force a JD with Luna, are there other bots who can say the same thing?

What's for the future?: Hammer & Nails 3 have already been designed, the whole bot has been reshaped and redone with much longer hammers and an anti-spinner plow. But will have to compete with Merry Hampton, Denryu Bakuha and Terminus to get the MW spot.

HW: A bot that had one bullet left in the gun, fired and landed in the semi-finals, making him my first HW bot to make it that far, I was proud of him for that. But I let him down cause I'm a fucking retard and cost him his match with Honey, where he got curbstomped for a humiliating second time&#33; Curse me

What's for the future?: He requires a rest, Treading The Wire and Gondolin's Clamo should to just nicely

SHW: Failure.... Need I say more?

What's for the future?: Anything that doesnt suck?

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