new ARC thing

Post by **That Kode Guy** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:50 am

Right, I'm gonna try and get hype for my ARC-ish idea before I open up the sign-up thread. Since this kind of thing is done pretty much every weekend, it will have little effect on my upcoming C&B5 so don't be alarmed. :P

I'm thinking of getting around 8-12 people for this, possibly more. Not going to break the weight continuity either; LW, MW, HW, SHW will be the only classes there.

However, there are three main issues.

1) Torque stat. I am finding this stat more and more redundant every time I see and use it. It is essentially the dump stat of the FRR system, and even I'm a delinquent here. I mean, these days there are barely any two robots that will push against each other, with all that wedge effectiveness going on. If the wedge stats are equal, still robots are able to get under the other due to writer's discretion. If there are no wedge stats, the robot is probably a heavy-hitting spinner and torque matters little anyway. Torque would have worked better with the old stats.

Therefore, I propose one of two things, since I am going to use a different stat system here. 26 points distributed between 5 categories. (30 for walkers, 20 for 2-part clusters, 17 for 3-parts, etc.)

Speed
Traction
Armour
Weapon
and either Torque or Wedge Effectiveness

If we get rid of wedge effectiveness, torque would come into play a lot more. Discuss?

2) Multiple arenas. These are going to be integrated into my FRA tourney too. For here, though, there will be some differences since you lot don't like house robots. :P

a) Main arena: The Battlegrounds. Similar to the Robot Wars arena. The CPZs however are replaced by hammer areas and there are killsaws and pneumatic arena spikes. The discs of death are on the middle of each arena wall. Think of them as a power 13 weapon.

b) Casino Night Zone. Sonic 2-themed arena. In each corner there are pneumatic paddles that fling your bot across the arena as if it were a pinball. Bumpers are here too; however, they act as stationary full-body spinners. While not as powerful as the Battlegrounds' Discs of Death, you'll still take damage. Also, there's a panel in the middle of the arena floor. Run over it, and slots will start (displayed above the arena walls). Get three Dr. Robotniks, and the only instance of a house robot appearing will happen, and can chase you at will. Thing is, it'll chase ANY robot in there. Get three of anything else...erm...nothing happens. And that's it. Nothing else; no pit, no OOTAs happening, no other hazards, no judges decisions! Fight to the death!

c) Land of Confusion. Named after Disturbed's cover and (IMO) better version of Genesis' song. I haven't decided too much on this arena yet but I'm thinking of having the Battlebox screws COMPLETELY line the walls here, for one thing.

d) Lumina Cloth. Named after the fighting arena in .hack//G.U. Basically a cross between the battle arena in Robotica and Sumo Basho in Robot Wars. Regular-sized arena, no walls. However, a wall of spikes surround the edge of the arena; they can pop up, lower, and so on and so forth; they can make you lose, or help you win.

e) not decided yet; thinking of making it Team Fortress 2 themed though..

Those are my ideas, and if you have any problems with that...bring 'em up! I'm nice. :P

3) Writers. I'm quite happy with how Josh has been writing fights and I'd like to ask him to take part, after Crazy Bots is finished. However, it can't be just us two, and I'd like to offer a position to another writer, most probably Martijn, since I quite enjoyed Mechanical Noise on FRA, or NFX because I believe he has potential. If anybody would like to step up and offer, though, it'd be good. :) If your name is Mark Elam (Meganew) though, you're going to have to show me a few fights before you make your offer. And fights that make logical sense, by the way. <_<

That's all the issues I have to bring up at the moment, so raise some questions if you have any. :)

NWOWWE · Post by **NWOWWE** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 11:59 am

That torque problem just keeps forcing it's way around doesn't it? I'd say dump it and keep wedge effectiveness since wedge pretty much acts like a weapon stat for rammers. Also, are you going to keep the armor bonus rule intact (+ here - everywhere else)?

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>Get three Dr. Robotniks[/quote]
I gotta build 3 of those things? How many paychecks do you think I get in a week buddy? :lol:

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>e) not decided yet; thinking of making it Team Fortress 2 themed though..[/quote]
"NO ITEMS! FOX ONLY! FINAL DESTINATION!"

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>Writers. I'm quite happy with how Josh has been writing fights and I'd like to ask him to take part[/quote]
I aim to please. Let's do it up. :cool:

Post by **That Kode Guy** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:11 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>NWOWWE</dt><dd>Mar 11 2012, 11:59 AM</dd></dl><div>That torque problem just keeps forcing it's way around doesn't it?  I'd say dump it and keep wedge effectiveness since wedge pretty much acts like a weapon stat for rammers.  Also, are you going to keep the armor bonus rule intact (+ here - everywhere else)?[/quote]

Yeah I was thinking along the same lines, but I wasn't too sure how everybody else would take the torque stat being shafted. And yeah, armour bonuses will apply here. Pretty much most of the detailed ARC stats John threw in will still be in effect, as they have been.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>NWOWWE</dt><dd>Mar 11 2012, 11:59 AM</dd></dl><div>I gotta build 3 of those things?  How many paychecks do you think I get in a week buddy? :lol:[/quote]

Har har. :P

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>NWOWWE</dt><dd>Mar 11 2012, 11:59 AM</dd></dl><div>"NO ITEMS! FOX ONLY! FINAL DESTINATION!"[/quote]

lmao! I was thinking of a Super Smash Bros themed arena but I decided against it, since that's a combination of other games and I don't think Final Destination or Battlefield would translate well to an arena (that or FD'd be a clone of my Lumina Cloth arena)

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>NWOWWE</dt><dd>Mar 11 2012, 11:59 AM</dd></dl><div>I aim to please.  Let's do it up. :cool:[/quote]

Roger that.

lewis · Post by **lewis** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:41 pm

Sounds like a cool tournament :)

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd> </dd></dl><div>I'd say dump it and keep wedge effectiveness since wedge pretty much acts like a weapon stat for rammers.[/quote]

Yeah I noticed this when I was doing Slammer's new stats, it kind of works against his new design because I wanted the forks to be powerful though <_<

BEES · Post by **BEES** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 12:54 pm

I think the traction category leads to a competition that favors slow, high-armor, high-weapon designs. It forces you to spend 2 points to get 1 speed bonus. That makes speed an inherently less efficient category than the others.

lewis · Post by **lewis** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:04 pm

I agree, but then again back in Carnage my slowest bot had a speed of 7! :P

NWOWWE · Post by **NWOWWE** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:19 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Spatula</dt><dd>Mar 11 2012, 12:54 PM</dd></dl><div>I think the traction category leads to a competition that favors slow, high-armor, high-weapon designs. It forces you to spend 2 points to get 1 speed bonus. That makes speed an inherently less efficient category than the others.[/quote]
What.

Okay, take away traction. Guess what rammers are still going to have: High Armor. Guess what Spinners are still going to have: High Weapon. And without Traction to worry about guess what they could spend more points in: Armor

I mean I guess we could have 10-12 speed bricks all over the place (lol Tank) and FBS that are basically pinballs with blades (lol Rooster Teeth), but somehow I don't think we'll be better off.

OR, we could have Traction and thus close the speed gap so that we don't have bricks flying around the arena, and a spinner doesn't have to be a FBS to have any prayer of hitting the opponent without getting wedge-raped first.

Post by **That Kode Guy** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 1:21 pm

Agreeing with Josh here. I want my tournament to be varied, and you can do that with less speed and less weapon, really...

BEES · Post by **BEES** » Sun Mar 11, 2012 3:50 pm

Don't get me wrong--I am not against having the traction category anymore. I think it's perfectly reasonable, so long as it is interpreted correctly.

I adamantly oppose removing torque or wedge effectiveness though. I like the strategic depth that having both offers. A high-torque robot is an unstoppable force if you can't get under it, and there are many situations where both robots would be evenly matched in terms of leverage, where torque would be a deciding factor.*

Even if most robots only have 1-2 points on it, that just makes a robot with 4 torque that much more powerful. Just because a category needs less points to be effective doesn't mean it is less effective. I also think torque should be necessary to maintain a high wedge-effectiveness stat. The more pressure a wedge has against the floor, the more torque you should need to overcome that friction. Have competitions with wedge and torque stats been taking that into account? I haven't read enough to know.

*As an example, we know that lifting forks get under wedges. Longer lifting forks beat shorter lifting forks. So the metagame is very forky. This makes few situations where two wedges will actually hit each other, since forks will just pass between, and the wedge stat goes only to the tips. Two fork-robots whose forks pass under the other would be locked in a pushing match then. Neither would get under the other.

Post by **That Kode Guy** » Thu Mar 22, 2012 12:42 pm

Okay. Keeping FRR-style stats then. I still think torque is abusable though...

Also, failure to create a TF2-inspired arena has led me to ask if I can borrow the ARC arena for this tournament...can I? I have my own crewbots. :P

NWOWWE · Post by **NWOWWE** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:42 am

Technically it's Chris', but I don't think he'd have a problem with it being used here.

Post by **That Kode Guy** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:31 am

Alright cool.

Land of Confusion arena now has conveyors that send you somewhere nasty.

Once I've got all the arenas rendered, I'll start sign-ups. Keep in mind that this will take a while though.

Post by **Badnik96** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 2:08 pm

ooh did you get the multiple arenas thingy from Steven's FRA competition? and will these be rumbles or 1-on-1?

NFX · Post by **NFX** » Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:23 pm

Sounds good. I'll try my best to make things interesting. =D An idea's just popped into my head, as a matter of fact.

Post by **That Kode Guy** » Sat Mar 24, 2012 12:43 am

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Badnik96</dt><dd>Mar 23 2012, 02:08 PM</dd></dl><div> ooh did you get the multiple arenas thingy from Steven's FRA competition? and will these be rumbles or 1-on-1? [/quote]
from Frank's NSBFL series, actually

I haven't decided yet. I'm trying not to differ from the current ARC/FRR tournaments too much, but different arenas are a plan I had since I thought about this whole thing