Metagame Analysis

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NFX
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Metagame Analysis

Post by NFX » Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:26 pm

A bit like Axios, you mean?

I think it could have interchangeable heads to serve a variety of uses. With the disc-warper, a curse to flip opponents, as Nick suggested, or maybe just a big-ass spike on the end.
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Metagame Analysis

Post by Siphai » Thu Feb 10, 2011 5:33 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>NFX</dt><dd>Feb 10 2011&#44; 05:26 PM</dd></dl><div> A bit like Axios, you mean?

I think it could have interchangeable heads to serve a variety of uses. With the disc-warper, a curse to flip opponents, as Nick suggested, or maybe just a big-ass spike on the end. [/quote]
Oh man, I wish I still had a pick of POPR with it's shitload of interchangeable weapons. One of which, if I recall correctly, was a heart shaped axe.

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Metagame Analysis

Post by Fish Of Doom » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:04 pm

In real life the I-beam robots would be about as effective as pneumatic spike robots. You would have to pin your opponent against the wall to even do any amount of damage, otherwise you'de just shove it away like a pool cue hitting a ball. Even if you pin them, you're most likely to knock yourself back from the beam, instead of crushing the opponent, unless they weigh less than you/have terrible armor. Also depending on the weight of the i-beam, whenever it goes forward or backward, it would knock your robot around quite a bit.

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BEES
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Metagame Analysis

Post by BEES » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:22 pm

the point is not to do damage it's to toss your opponent around, play keepaway, or use their own weapons to damage themselves

it's nothing like a spike robot

it is to a spike what a flywheel is to a saw

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Metagame Analysis

Post by Meganew » Thu Feb 10, 2011 9:49 pm

*Me looks at Probot and Force Feedback

That thing has the biggest rack I've ever seen. :lol:

Sorry, couldn't resist.

DRD
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Metagame Analysis

Post by DRD » Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:49 am

Alright I just got done reading through this thread and there is a lot of things I agree with. Ram bots have a ridiculous advantage. In order to even damage them you need a weapon with an absurd amount of power and even then what you have in power you pretty much lack in other stats and they can basically run circles around you. This is why I designed Wrath Of The Lich King to have as much speed as he does and I am pretty pissed off that design is failing miserably. I'm sorry but I do not understand why the opponent isn't getting knocked away after each shot. I should at least be able to tear up the side skirts and thin wedges of these bots decently but the results writers act like my robot has hit a brick wall. That fight with Armageddon was absurd. Sure he was fast but I should have been able to knock him away and get back up to speed especially since the teeth are set low to tear into wedges and such. I'm not trying to be a jackass by any means and I've been really biting my tongue this season because I'm trying to avoid having a complete nuclear meltdown like last season but It's ludicrous.

And another thing. I've expressed these feelings to Gemini in the past but I might as well throw my 2 cents in the mix. Traction is stupid. It really is. The ability to control a robot should not be a stat. I've seen enough Battlebots to be able to tell that drivers can control an insanely fast robot. Driver Skill should not be a stat. Torque should be the primary thing here with how much it can push. I don't understand why the people in charge decided to change this. I really don't. And the whole stat bonuses thing is just making things WAY TOO COMPLEX for my liking. I'm sorry but reading the rules now is like reading an encyclopedia. Things should be simplified. No new player is going to want to read through all those technicalities.

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Metagame Analysis

Post by NWOWWE » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:18 am

Gaahhhh&#33;

Let's take a look down memory lane. With the rules the way they originally were it was all SPINNERS ARE OVERPOWERED&#33; with them having weapon stats of like 14 or whatever as Alex said before. Okay, so we had the passive armor bonuses to counter that. But then people started abusing the hell out of that and started sticking hinged wedges and other attachable shit everywhere they had space. The end result was a general RAMMERS ARE OVERPOWERED&#33; Fine, so we get rid of that rule and change it to our current system where bonus can be given at the expense of armor everywhere else which I think has done a decent job of fixing that problem. But spinners were still running around with uber-weapons, so we decided to expand the Torque stat into Traction to make it more important for ALL bots. Rammers had to keep it closer to their speed stats so they couldn't just be all armor and speed without dealing with control problems, and spinners couldn't just dump one point into it anymore without becoming a pinball and all the problems that go with that. This also made other weapon bots like hammers become more feasible since rammers didn't have the complete god-armor they used to (armor generally tops out at 8 or 9 these days), and spinners wouldn't rip them apart in two hits.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>I've seen enough Battlebots to be able to tell that drivers can control an insanely fast robot.[/quote]
Okay I understand where you're coming from, but the fact of the matter is this: ARC is an RPG league. Real battlebots don't have stats, they are entirely design and driver dependent. Hell in an RPG you can change one article of clothing, such as your boots, and that makes your entire body more durable. In real life we know that is complete nonsense, it's more the person IN the boots, but in an RPG things work differently.

Therefore we must use a stat system that can serve a myriad of different potential designs while still being accessible to anyone that wants to enter. Believe it or not this is not as easy as it sounds. After every season we look through what people find to be shortcomings and try to finesse the rules to be more balanced.

I confess I get a little tired of hearing the same bullshit season after season about how the rules are broken. If you can come up with a stat system that lasts even half as long as ARC's has without ANY complaining about it, then I'll run around my neighborhood naked.
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Metagame Analysis

Post by MadBull » Fri Feb 11, 2011 9:54 am

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>DRD</dt><dd>Feb 11 2011&#44; 01:49 PM</dd></dl><div> And another thing. I've expressed these feelings to Gemini in the past but I might as well throw my 2 cents in the mix. Traction is stupid. It really is. The ability to control a robot should not be a stat. I've seen enough Battlebots to be able to tell that drivers can control an insanely fast robot. Driver Skill should not be a stat. Torque should be the primary thing here with how much it can push. I don't understand why the people in charge decided to change this. I really don't. And the whole stat bonuses thing is just making things WAY TOO COMPLEX for my liking. I'm sorry but reading the rules now is like reading an encyclopedia. Things should be simplified. No new player is going to want to read through all those technicalities. [/quote]
In defense of the torque/traction stat, the stat does NOT say how good the driver is at controlling robots, the stat says how controllable a robot is, which makes it purely a robot-stat and not a drivers-stat.

Drivers can control a very fast robot in real life, yes. Good for them, that just means they are highly skilled drivers. If those same drivers would be given a robot with a more moderate speed, and time to get used to the robot, the control would be even better.
Likewise, if we see a driver who is having big troubles controlling an already fairly slow robot, his control over an insanely fast robot would be even more poor, that's the way it is.

For the purpose of ARC, I think it's only fair that all roboteers have the same driving skills, and that is in fact the way it is. Within this setting where all drivers are equal, its only logical that an insanely fast low traction robot will be less controllable than a slow robot with good traction.

Im hearing fair arguments about traction, but to be fair, I think the system as it is right now isnt that far off. It still is a good point that seemingly traction isnt deemed as important as armour, speed or weapon, by far, and that something could be done about that (removing the traction stat altogether being a possibility).

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Metagame Analysis

Post by BEES » Fri Feb 11, 2011 12:40 pm

Spinners had a huge advantage, now they have a disadvantage. It's more balanced but it's not there yet. ARC got more balanced every year because curmudgeons have been tweaking the rules.

NWOWWE, rules change. Get used to it.

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BEES
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Metagame Analysis

Post by BEES » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:55 pm

Manta was a true walker before walkers had a weight advantage. I could have entered a full-body spinner with manta's walking system and collected that weight advantage, but I didn't. You know why?

Because I'm not an asshole.

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Metagame Analysis

Post by joeychevron » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:56 pm

Where's Aaron when you need him?

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Metagame Analysis

Post by Meganew » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:03 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Spatula</dt><dd>Feb 18 2011&#44; 03:55 PM</dd></dl><div> Manta was a true walker before walkers had a weight advantage. I could have entered a full-body spinner with manta's walking system and collected that weight advantage, but I didn't. You know why?

Because I'm not an asshole. [/quote]
I really hope that wasn't directed towards me. I asked you for permission, and I got it. I'm also not an asshole.

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BEES
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Metagame Analysis

Post by BEES » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:09 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Meganew</dt><dd>Feb 18 2011&#44; 05:03 PM</dd></dl><div> <blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Spatula</dt><dd>Feb 18 2011&#44; 03:55 PM</dd></dl><div> Manta was a true walker before walkers had a weight advantage. I could have entered a full-body spinner with manta's walking system and collected that weight advantage, but I didn't. You know why?

Because I'm not an asshole. [/quote]
I really hope that wasn't directed towards me. I asked you for permission, and I got it. I'm also not an asshole. [/quote]
no you're cool

your walker isn't even a spinner, or the same kind of walker for that matter. it's a cool robot don't worry about it

i'm just evaluating my options for keeping the traction as low as possible in my stats

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Metagame Analysis

Post by Meganew » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:11 pm

Yeah, it is. It has a big spinning rim that seems to be less effective then the previous one's. And the system's basically the same except for the fact that it runs off pneumatics instead of AC motors.

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BEES
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Metagame Analysis

Post by BEES » Fri Feb 18, 2011 5:14 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>joeychevron</dt><dd>Feb 18 2011&#44; 04:56 PM</dd></dl><div> Where's Aaron when you need him? [/quote]
All they had to do was lower the walker weight limit to 125 kg and force anyone using walkers to show how their system worked.

But nope... free 100 kg advantage to anyone who wants it&#33; That's how TOs rolled back then.

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