ARC: Armageddon Discussion

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panicattacky2k
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ARC: Armageddon Discussion

Post by panicattacky2k » Sat Jan 08, 2011 3:57 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>Doesn't matter if everyone knows it's not original.[/quote]

Of course it does, you're obviously not going to make the plagiarism sell if not only does everybody know it's not original, but you outright admit it's not, and everybody knows who the original author is. Nick didn't credit Christian Carlberg, so I don't see why I'm required to credit Jim, and I don't see why it eliminates the fundamental fallacy even if I do. Is there a degrading word for this? Certainly. I don't know what it is, but plagiarism doesn't fit it.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>And Chris is a hell of a lot more competent to run this league than you are.[/quote]

And where the hell did I say I should be the one to do it? You have a very nasty habit of putting words in my mouth.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>Nick at least made a CAD for it[/quote]

and

that CAD was Minion. It wasn't even a Minion clone, it was Minion. We could play circle the differences and the only one we'd find is the paintjob, I guarantee it. So what is the fundamental difference between making an identical CAD and using a picture identical to the CAD? I don't see one.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>not one of the three real life bots you chose for your team have won the Nut in real life BattleBot tournaments. [/quote]

And? Nightmare is a proven effective formula, Battlerat would kick ass in the ARC stat system, and Warrior SKF is probably the most ridiculous thing in RC today and could probably beat robots above it's weight class. If BB 6.0 ever happens, Warrior SKF would slaughter everything that tried to get in it's path, no contest.

Area51Escapee
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ARC: Armageddon Discussion

Post by Area51Escapee » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:03 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>succotash_54</dt><dd>Jan 8 2011&#44; 08:45 PM</dd></dl><div> <blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>panicattacky2k</dt><dd>Jan 8 2011&#44; 03:31 PM</dd></dl><div>
<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>You never even credited the bots with their [/quote]

Chris, if you don't know who's responsible for Nightmare and Warrior SKF, and don't expect a majority of the members on this forum to know who's responsible for them, I contest your ability to run this league. I'm not even shitting you. [/quote]

Doesn't matter if everyone knows it's not original. If you don't cite the source specifically, it's plagiarism. Ask any professor. And Chris is a hell of a lot more competent to run this league than you are. I'm not even shitting you.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>
Nobody said anything when Nick entered Minion, so why should it? I don't recall Nick crediting Christian Carlberg for Minion. Every single user here I hope knows that Christian Carlberg built Minion. Just like we all know Jim Swentowski built Nightmare.[/quote]

1. Nick at least made a CAD for it, rather than just blatantly borrow the picture (which could be considered theft of intellectual property, to link to their pics without their permission, just to get super-technical with you).

2. That was the ONLY design Nick borrowed, and was at least 3/4ths original, whereas you've got those numbers back-asswards.

3. Nick didn't borrow Minion as an overtly desperate attempt to win a championship. And yes, motivation is a factor.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>Again, tell me where I said being original automatically means bad. Tell me where it says that. I didn't. What I DID say is that effectiveness and originality are two completely different things. Look at all the successful rammer-bots to prove my point that you can make a boring design out of almost any rammer base and it's going to do well. Conversely, if you're an FBS, you're almost always going to break even.[/quote]

And you missed what I said. I said you didn't need to prove it because it's already BEEN proven.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>Philip, it's because I don't have a championship that I'm taking this new approach. In previous seasons I entered gimmicky designs like I4NI over actually effective ones like Tornado Mer. Look at where the hell that got me. I'm done with gimmicks, it's time to use shit that actually works.[/quote]

Let me use smaller words to make sure you understand: not one of the three real life bots you chose for your team have won the Nut in real life BattleBot tournaments. That's what makes your using them for the reason you state so funny. [/quote]
I was basically going to say the exact same stuff as this, so no need to reiterate. Anthony, please find out more information about plagiarism before making yourself look like an idiot.

I'll admit, though, that Nick's Minion could technically be seen as "plagiarism" as well. Which means we might need to make an actual rule against bots like that in the future because of douchebags like you challenging every loophole in the book. The obvious reason we didn't forbid it is because he technically built it himself from scratch and there was no reason to detect malicious intent for him using it. We are far to lenient to make a big deal about that but this is just too much.

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ARC: Armageddon Discussion

Post by Area51Escapee » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:15 pm

And aside from what is technically right or wrong, the point is you're being an ass just for the sake of being an ass (which is what you usually do, anyways). Were you really dumb enough not to think this was not going to create controversy? Were you really dumb enough not to PM us first to ask (which I guarantee you, wouldn't have resulted in any hostile retaliation) instead of posting it anyways and being a complete dick to anyone challenging your decision. You've got to be one the biggest assholes I've ever come across, and I've held my tongue on so many idiotic things you've done and said in the past but this is the worst. I'm not going to intentionally write you losses because I'm a fair writer and don't do that shit, but let it be known that people like you are one of the many reasons I don't want to run these tournaments anymore. I run them because I think they are "fun", but you clearly said in the past you are not interested in "fun".

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ARC: Armageddon Discussion

Post by BEES » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:15 pm

Guys, you're forgetting that real robots plagiarize each other all the time. There's nothing legally preventing that. Entrants have never been disqualified for being too similar to each other.

Brutality IS Hazard. It's not even a reinterpretation of the damn thing. It's a perfect clone. The only difference is the weight class. And good on them. It's only the most effective design ever... they'd be fools not to reuse it.

The same could be said for Megabyte, which is really just a heavyweight Ziggo. And then every hockey-puck spinner looks nearly identical. Every weaponless wedge is nearly the same too. There are only 4-5 designs that really WORK... and those get reused. Sometimes creatively, but often just functionally.

Nobody's doing anything wrong here. You can enter real things. This is a game. Just like RA2, which repurposes real robots.

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ARC: Armageddon Discussion

Post by succotash_54 » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:18 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>Of course it does, you're obviously not going to make the plagiarism sell if not only does everybody know it's not original, but you outright admit it's not, and everybody knows who the original author is. Nick didn't credit Christian Carlberg, so I don't see why I'm required to credit Jim, and I don't see why it eliminates the fundamental fallacy even if I do. Is there a degrading word for this? Certainly. I don't know what it is, but plagiarism doesn't fit it.[/quote] Actually, yes, plagiarism is a fit, with years of case study that agrees with it. And we let Nick get away with it because it was an isolated incident with less than insidious intent. Your reason is just plain unsportsmanlike.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>And where the hell did I say I should be the one to do it? You have a very nasty habit of putting words in my mouth.[/quote]
Well at least we're agreed that you shouldn't be the one to do it. But seriously, if you're gonna challenge his authority on the league, you'd better have something real to back it up. And you don't. And this isn't the first time for you either.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div><blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>not one of the three real life bots you chose for your team have won the Nut in real life BattleBot tournaments. [/quote]

And? Nightmare is a proven effective formula, Battlerat would kick ass in the ARC stat system, and Warrior SKF is probably the most ridiculous thing in RC today and could probably beat robots above it's weight class. If BB 6.0 ever happens, Warrior SKF would slaughter everything that tried to get in it's path, no contest.[/quote] You still don't see the irony of outright stating that your purpose is to win a title at all costs and then load up your roster with bots that have yet to win a championship? Seriously? And I'm saying it right now: Nightmare doesn't stand a fucking chance.

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ARC: Armageddon Discussion

Post by panicattacky2k » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:19 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>Were you really dumb enough not to think this was not going to create controversy? [/quote]

no

theres a reason i asked before i went ahead and did it

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>Were you really dumb enough not to PM us first to ask [/quote]

I did. The staff member I contacted was someone I felt was responsible enough to tell me if he thought this was going to fuck shit up, though I don't mean to hold that against him. It's probably going to come across that way no matter which way I try to phase it, but I did feel like he had the judgement to tell me if he didn't want me to do it.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>and being a complete dick to anyone challenging your decision.[/quote]

The only time I insulted someone was you, and I only did that once, and that was out of sheer annoyance out of a "C'mon, REALLY?" kind of deal. I might have overreacted. I apologize.

^^and yes, what Nick said. Do you really want me to run through every CFL bot that bears more than an uncanny resemblance to a real life counterpart?


<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>I run them because I think they are "fun", but you clearly said in the past you are not interested in "fun". [/quote]

k

Maybe this will up the chances of a future tournament. I'm too busy anyway.

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ARC: Armageddon Discussion

Post by Area51Escapee » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:20 pm

Apparently, I'm unfit because I don't know who built Warrior. Kick me out&#33;

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ARC: Armageddon Discussion

Post by joeychevron » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:21 pm

Isn't entering a real robot with the stated intention of winning the championship basically admitting failure in one's ability to design effective, championship-winning machines?

*hides in closet*

*edited to remove space before comma*

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ARC: Armageddon Discussion

Post by panicattacky2k » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:22 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Area51Escapee</dt><dd>Jan 8 2011&#44; 04:20 PM</dd></dl><div> Apparently, I'm unfit because I don't know who built Warrior. Kick me out&#33; [/quote]
:rolleyes: Come on, really? Not only has Warrior SKF been around in the RFL scene since at least '07, it fucking says Team Whyachi on the front of the damn thing. Really Chris, you know better than this...

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>Isn't entering a real robot with the stated intention of winning the championship basically admitting failure in one's ability to design effective, championship-winning machines?[/quote]

maybe. Probably. I was a one-hit wonder, that's a reputation I'll have to live with.

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ARC: Armageddon Discussion

Post by That Kode Guy » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:24 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>panicattacky2k</dt><dd>Jan 8 2011&#44; 04:19 PM</dd></dl><div> I did. The staff member I contacted was someone I felt was responsible enough to tell me if he thought this was going to fuck shit up, though I don't mean to hold that against him. [/quote]
In other words, you chose the person least likely to give a shit.

You're seriously heading towards a ban, don't push it any further.
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ARC: Armageddon Discussion

Post by succotash_54 » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:27 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>KodeBreaker</dt><dd>Jan 8 2011&#44; 04:24 PM</dd></dl><div> <blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>panicattacky2k</dt><dd>Jan 8 2011&#44; 04:19 PM</dd></dl><div> I did. The staff member I contacted was someone I felt was responsible enough to tell me if he thought this was going to fuck shit up, though I don't mean to hold that against him. [/quote]
In other words, you chose the person least likely to give a shit.

You're seriously heading towards a ban, don't push it any further. [/quote]
Which, by the way, won't happen without a concensus from the all the staff, so if you get banned, no way you'll be able to claim it was one staff member's grudge with you.

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ARC: Armageddon Discussion

Post by Area51Escapee » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:27 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>panicattacky2k</dt><dd>Jan 8 2011&#44; 09:22 PM</dd></dl><div> <blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Area51Escapee</dt><dd>Jan 8 2011&#44; 04:20 PM</dd></dl><div> Apparently, I'm unfit because I don't know who built Warrior. Kick me out&#33; [/quote]
:rolleyes: Come on, really? Not only has Warrior SKF been around in the RFL scene since at least '07, it fucking says Team Whyachi on the front of the damn thing. Really Chris, you know better than this...

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>Isn't entering a real robot with the stated intention of winning the championship basically admitting failure in one's ability to design effective, championship-winning machines?[/quote]

maybe. Probably. I was a one-hit wonder, that's a reputation I'll have to live with. [/quote]
First of all, I said that as sarcasm (I know who Team Whyachi is and all). I said that (because you're too stupid) knowing who built a bot 5 years ago or whenever it was built that has nothing to do with CFL or how to judge bot designs and strategies against each other.

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ARC: Armageddon Discussion

Post by panicattacky2k » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:27 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>In other words, you chose the person least likely to give a shit.[/quote]

Siphai doesn't give a shit? I don't get that impression at all. Yeah, he was snarky towards me the first few times, but that's only because he felt the question was obvious. The next few times I asked questions, he was very helpful and detailed. I don't hold it against him. I'm going to have to say you're way out of line for saying that, Kody. WAY out of line. Talking shit about me is one thing, talking shit about someone who's been very helpful during preparation in the pre-season is another.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>You're seriously heading towards a ban, don't push it any further. [/quote]

I dropped out, do I look like I care about being banned? Clearly Chris feels the forum is going to be more of a fun place without me on it. If he wants to ban me, let him. Though I'd still love to know why he invited me in the first place if he always felt I was a dbag.

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ARC: Armageddon Discussion

Post by succotash_54 » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:32 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>panicattacky2k</dt><dd>Jan 8 2011&#44; 04:27 PM</dd></dl><div> <blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Quote:</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>You're seriously heading towards a ban, don't push it any further. [/quote]

I dropped out, do I look like I care about being banned? Clearly Chris feels the forum is going to be more of a fun place without me on it. If he wants to ban me, let him. Though I'd still love to know why he invited me in the first place if he always felt I was a dbag. [/quote]
Because over time people (usually) mature, and people are often reconciled to each other. We're not going to ban you unless it gets any further out of hand. You're still welcome to be in ARC. You wanna use four Shovearounds? Don't care. Fwiw, I don't think making your team all RL Battlebot champions is going to do you a damn bit of good, but you're welcome to try. But if you wanna constantly play the victim, don't expect us to keep listening to your bellyaching.

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ARC: Armageddon Discussion

Post by That Kode Guy » Sat Jan 08, 2011 4:34 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>panicattacky2k</dt><dd>Jan 8 2011&#44; 04:27 PM</dd></dl><div> Siphai doesn't give a shit? I don't get that impression at all. Yeah, he was snarky towards me the first few times, but that's only because he felt the question was obvious. The next few times I asked questions, he was very helpful and detailed. I don't hold it against him. I'm going to have to say you're way out of line for saying that, Kody. WAY out of line. Talking shit about me is one thing, talking shit about someone who's been very helpful during preparation in the pre-season is another. [/quote]
So I'm apparently out of line for stating that you went to speak with a person about this issue, who didn't care at first and then decided that you were full of shit, so he posted his opinion politely to make himself not look like a dick like you're being...while you're apparently scot-free for spewing all this bullshit about plagiarism suddenly being okay? Well slap my sassafraz and call me Spanky. There's some nice ripe contradiction for you.
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