Election Thread [Flaming Allowed] [If yOu don't support

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BEES
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Election Thread [Flaming Allowed] [If yOu don't support

Post by BEES » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:06 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>TotallyNotSatan</dt><dd>Apr 27 2016, 01:31 AM</dd></dl><div>Oh yeah, now reports of PA suppression. That makes 8 states, all of which Clinton won(and and in 4 even then very slimly.)


Image[/quote]Clinton didn't win anything through suppression on her part. The suppression in PA, FL, and AZ was done by Republican-led governments that controlled those states, not any of Clinton's allies in the DNC. And ultimately that's not why she's winning. She's winning because the DNC obfuscated Sanders from the public view as much as possible--having only 3 debates before the states started voting, setting all of them on holiday weekends or game nights, throwing all their endorsements to one candidate, etc.

That worked. It did the damage it needed to do. Sanders was polling nationally at 40% to Clinton's 60% on Super Tuesday, and he didn't pull even until early April, by which point it was too late. The delegate hole was already too deep.

By setting the first debate to October 13th... that meant it was AFTER the deadline to switch parties in NY (october 9th), which meant any independents or republicans in NY who found out about him from the debates, and who wanted to vote for Sanders couldn't, this year. I believe some of the states voting last night had similar draconian restrictions.

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Election Thread [Flaming Allowed] [If yOu don't support

Post by succotash_54 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:32 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Spatula</dt><dd>Apr 27 2016, 04:38 PM</dd></dl><div>Look, I know last night was probably painful. I know it's been tough to watch all hope for any substantive change in the next 8 years pretty much collapse this month, and I know some of you are probably very riled up right now and very tempted to allow Trump to burn the whole house down to teach the cowards in the democratic party a lesson...

Let me just say... you don't want to do that. That is exactly the kind of anger Trump is counting on. You are being played if you allow him to become president that way.

There is no "progressive revolution" that happens after a Trump presidency. What we have in this country right now is an unprecedented coordinated attack on voting rights by one party that senses the demographics shifting against them. If that party is allowed control over every branch of government... forget about having fair elections... EVER. Instead, picture a christian evangelical neo-fascist version of the Arab spring, lasting for the next 50 years of your life.

Literally the only thing preventing that right now is democrats retaining the presidency for another four years, and getting to replace the next two Supreme Court justices, which would allow them to repeal Veith v Jubilerer 2004 - the case that allows partisan gerrymandering which keeps 31 state legislatures under permanent republican control. It would also allow us to overturn Citizens United which would end corporate financing of elections.
[/quote]I think you're giving Hairpiece too much credit in terms of maintaining the party line. I feel that if he's elected the mafia will rule this country, using him as their passkey. He has known ties to the mob. I genuinely believe he will gut the country to get every dollar out of it that he can. I honestly would not put it past him to re-appropriate our national parks to develop and erect more condos and golf courses. A corrupt real estate magnate as the head of a country whose Supreme Court has said there is no such thing as eminent domain abuse? That should terrify every one of us.

If he's elected president, the Best Case Scenario is for him to either die before he can be sworn in, or for the rest of the Western world to unite and declare war on the U.S. until we get it right.

I'm no fan of Lizardwoman either, but that bloated asshole is the worst human being on the planet, with the possible exception of Kim Jong-Un. I'd rather crown Kanye and Kim as our royal family than have that fucktard as commander-in-chief.
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Election Thread [Flaming Allowed] [If yOu don't support

Post by TotallyNotSatan » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:13 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Spatula</dt><dd>Apr 27 2016, 05:06 PM</dd></dl><div><blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>TotallyNotSatan</dt><dd>Apr 27 2016, 01:31 AM</dd></dl><div>Oh yeah, now reports of PA suppression. That makes 8 states, all of which Clinton won(and and in 4 even then very slimly.)


Image[/quote]Clinton didn't win anything through suppression on her part. The suppression in PA, FL, and AZ was done by Republican-led governments that controlled those states, not any of Clinton's allies in the DNC. And ultimately that's not why she's winning. She's winning because the DNC obfuscated Sanders from the public view as much as possible--having only 3 debates before the states started voting, setting all of them on holiday weekends or game nights, throwing all their endorsements to one candidate, etc.

That worked. It did the damage it needed to do. Sanders was polling nationally at 40% to Clinton's 60% on Super Tuesday, and he didn't pull even until early April, by which point it was too late. The delegate hole was already too deep.

By setting the first debate to October 13th... that meant it was AFTER the deadline to switch parties in NY (october 9th), which meant any independents or republicans in NY who found out about him from the debates, and who wanted to vote for Sanders couldn't, this year. I believe some of the states voting last night had similar draconian restrictions.
[/quote]Regardless, a third of Clinton's lead is due to suppression and voters being unable to vote.


BTW, I found a map that has Sanders win(http://www.berniecounter.com/1813). This is very optimistic, and I don't expect this map is going to be followed.

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Election Thread [Flaming Allowed] [If yOu don't support

Post by BEES » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:00 am

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>succotash_54</dt><dd>Apr 27 2016, 08:32 PM</dd></dl><div>I think you're giving Hairpiece too much credit in terms of maintaining the party line. I feel that if he's elected the mafia will rule this country, using him as their passkey. He has known ties to the mob. I genuinely believe he will gut the country to get every dollar out of it that he can. I honestly would not put it past him to re-appropriate our national parks to develop and erect more condos and golf courses. A corrupt real estate magnate as the head of a country whose Supreme Court has said there is no such thing as eminent domain abuse? That should terrify every one of us.

If he's elected president, the Best Case Scenario is for him to either die before he can be sworn in, or for the rest of the Western world to unite and declare war on the U.S. until we get it right.

I'm no fan of Lizardwoman either, but that bloated asshole is the worst human being on the planet, with the possible exception of Kim Jong-Un. I'd rather crown Kanye and Kim as our royal family than have that fucktard as commander-in-chief. [/quote]It's all an act. Trump being an outsider is completely a facade. Endorsements from the party have already started rolling in. They've already got a list of justices and cabinet members for Trump to nominate. The man is hopelessly unqualified to be president, so if he were in that position he'd most likely end up being a figurehead, while the VP and cabinet do the heavy lifting. He's another Bush, essentially.

This is the point in any primary where opinion polls tend to be lowest for all the candidates. After the conventions, the Cruz supporters will reconsider the prospects of Hillary and many will hold their nose and jump on the Trump train. We live in a different sort of era, where politics are far more partisan and set than before, and personalities matter less.

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Election Thread [Flaming Allowed] [If yOu don't support

Post by BEES » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:16 am

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>TotallyNotSatan</dt><dd>Apr 27 2016, 09:13 PM</dd></dl><div><blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Spatula</dt><dd>Apr 27 2016, 05:06 PM</dd></dl><div><blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>TotallyNotSatan</dt><dd>Apr 27 2016, 01:31 AM</dd></dl><div>Oh yeah, now reports of PA suppression. That makes 8 states, all of which Clinton won(and and in 4 even then very slimly.)


Image[/quote]Clinton didn't win anything through suppression on her part. The suppression in PA, FL, and AZ was done by Republican-led governments that controlled those states, not any of Clinton's allies in the DNC. And ultimately that's not why she's winning. She's winning because the DNC obfuscated Sanders from the public view as much as possible--having only 3 debates before the states started voting, setting all of them on holiday weekends or game nights, throwing all their endorsements to one candidate, etc.

That worked. It did the damage it needed to do. Sanders was polling nationally at 40% to Clinton's 60% on Super Tuesday, and he didn't pull even until early April, by which point it was too late. The delegate hole was already too deep.

By setting the first debate to October 13th... that meant it was AFTER the deadline to switch parties in NY (october 9th), which meant any independents or republicans in NY who found out about him from the debates, and who wanted to vote for Sanders couldn't, this year. I believe some of the states voting last night had similar draconian restrictions.
[/quote]Regardless, a third of Clinton's lead is due to suppression and voters being unable to vote.


BTW, I found a map that has Sanders win(http://www.berniecounter.com/1813). This is very optimistic, and I don't expect this map is going to be followed.[/quote]Eh, Sanders benefited disproportionately from caucuses. He would not have won states like Washington or Colorado with 80% margins if they were primaries. Probably would've been more like 55-45 in those places. Caucuses tend to benefit candidates that generate enthusiasm. The extra delegates he gained from the caucus states do nullify some of the delegates Clinton gained from states with closed primaries and restrictive registration rules.

Both candidates support mail-in voting and automatic voter registration. Clinton may be a corrupt weasel but she's also a corrupt weasel for her team, and she supports policies that will get them more votes.

Sanders actually could win every remaining state from this point onward. That's more likely than you might think. The problem is he won't win by the margins he needs. 72% in California is impossible, except in the most apocalyptic scenarios. Worth fighting for anyway... I think his supporters in these states deserve a chance to have their voices heard. I'd like to see him take as many delegates to the convention as possible, and I think winning California by any amount would significantly strengthen the perception of his candidacy (so far he's lost every large state except michigan), and the bargaining power he'd have to extract policy promises from the party in return for his endorsement.

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Post by TotallyNotSatan » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:46 pm

The caucuses were supposed to happen. The voter suppression was not.

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Election Thread [Flaming Allowed] [If yOu don't support

Post by The_Angry_Goat » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:59 pm

you can't argue that one half of the system is fair and the other isn't when they were both in place before the primaries began. Then you're just trying to skew things in favor of your preferred candidate, which isn't fair if he ends up not being the one most popular to the party as a whole

I don't think we should have caucuses at all - all primaries should be in the 1 vote per person style. but then I also think we should get rid of the electoral college altogether, so :v:
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Election Thread [Flaming Allowed] [If yOu don't support

Post by TotallyNotSatan » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:32 pm

I agree with the popular vote thing. My point is that Bernie Sanders didn't cause the caucuses, whereas I'll eat a hat if the DNC and Clinton weren't in some way linked to any of the voter suppressions and people being taken off the voter rolls thus far.

EDIT: On a side note, the HRC campaign is now calling Indiana voters and saying that Sanders dropped out. It's official, I will support Trump over Clinton now. Fuck Clinton.

EDIT 2: I wouldn't say 73% in CA is impossible. We're at 50% right now, and one month ago we were at 35%. We have over a month to go, and a the next string of wins should help.
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Election Thread [Flaming Allowed] [If yOu don't support

Post by succotash_54 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:51 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Spatula</dt><dd>Apr 28 2016, 10:00 AM</dd></dl><div><blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>succotash_54</dt><dd>Apr 27 2016, 08:32 PM</dd></dl><div>I think you're giving Hairpiece too much credit in terms of maintaining the party line. I feel that if he's elected the mafia will rule this country, using him as their passkey. He has known ties to the mob. I genuinely believe he will gut the country to get every dollar out of it that he can. I honestly would not put it past him to re-appropriate our national parks to develop and erect more condos and golf courses. A corrupt real estate magnate as the head of a country whose Supreme Court has said there is no such thing as eminent domain abuse? That should terrify every one of us.

If he's elected president, the Best Case Scenario is for him to either die before he can be sworn in, or for the rest of the Western world to unite and declare war on the U.S. until we get it right.

I'm no fan of Lizardwoman either, but that bloated asshole is the worst human being on the planet, with the possible exception of Kim Jong-Un. I'd rather crown Kanye and Kim as our royal family than have that fucktard as commander-in-chief. [/quote]It's all an act. Trump being an outsider is completely a facade. Endorsements from the party have already started rolling in. They've already got a list of justices and cabinet members for Trump to nominate. The man is hopelessly unqualified to be president, so if he were in that position he'd most likely end up being a figurehead, while the VP and cabinet do the heavy lifting. He's another Bush, essentially.

This is the point in any primary where opinion polls tend to be lowest for all the candidates. After the conventions, the Cruz supporters will reconsider the prospects of Hillary and many will hold their nose and jump on the Trump train. We live in a different sort of era, where politics are far more partisan and set than before, and personalities matter less.

[/quote]Possibly, but they'll have to pay him to keep him from actually taking part. That's what it's ultimately about: money. If he thinks he can get a lot more money ignoring the party and going some shadier routes, it'll happen. Luckily, if he tries, he'll have a huge battle on his hands, as both parties will be basically against him.

As far as the primaries, things are definitely more partisan than before.... among the older voters. The population of those who don't affiliate with either party is growing, and personalities are mattering. The problem is, between these two, you can't find any witnesses to vouch for their character because neither one has any. So it reverts back to partisan.

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Post by TotallyNotSatan » Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:40 pm

Not necessarily. I'd say Trump has character. Just not in a good sense.
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Election Thread [Flaming Allowed] [If yOu don't support

Post by The_Angry_Goat » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:13 am

I'd rather a lier who won't destroy the country to a nutcase who is only in it for himself, regardless of "character"
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ROBOTS3...?
Found God in a Tomato: 0-0
Venice Queen: 0-0
Visual Assault: 0-0
Blackburn Kangaroo: 0-0


Pat only uses 10% of his power to be fair to everyone else ~Hooray for Lexan

also I cant help but feel government funded hentai is a lot like our drugs policy ~Madbull

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Election Thread [Flaming Allowed] [If yOu don't support

Post by TotallyNotSatan » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:45 am

I'd rather the country realizes "Oh shit, we need to actually elect good candidates" and wake up rather than be the same for the next election cycles.

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Election Thread [Flaming Allowed] [If yOu don't support

Post by BEES » Fri Apr 29, 2016 10:52 am

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>succotash_54</dt><dd>Apr 28 2016, 10:51 PM</dd></dl><div>As far as the primaries, things are definitely more partisan than before.... among the older voters. The population of those who don't affiliate with either party is growing, and personalities are mattering. The problem is, between these two, you can't find any witnesses to vouch for their character because neither one has any. So it reverts back to partisan.[/quote]Young voters are more likely to be independents, but that shouldn't be mistaken for more of them being moderates. The overton window is very different in my generation. We're sick of both parties and want real change. The kinds of change we want are only moderate in the global sense.

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>TotallyNotSatan</dt><dd>&nbsp;</dd></dl><div>I'd rather the country realizes "Oh shit, we need to actually elect good candidates" and wake up rather than be the same for the next election cycles.[/quote]

Accelerationism has never worked. And you can forget about having elections if Trump wins. The Republicans have blocked all of Obama's federal court nominations. There are 78 seats open currently (including Scalia's seat). The next time they win the presidency they will consolidate those seats and you'll see a tidal wave of hardcore right wing justices unlike anything that's happened in this country before. They're counting on gullible, angry voters like yourself allowing their guy to win, so they can usher in a new age. There is no "trying again in 4-8 years" if Clinton loses in November.

You need to understand the way elections work in this country, and how fragile our ability to vote actually is. (By the way, the Republicans have been trying to chip away at one-man-one-vote for the past two years. There was a court case where they tried to change districts to reflect registered voters instead of citizens, which would've made gerrymandering vastly more powerful... now imagine if they'd had more sympathetic justices for that case&#33; Well, actually you don't need to imagine. You can vote for Trump and find out for yourself&#33;).

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Election Thread [Flaming Allowed] [If yOu don't support

Post by Siphai » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:46 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Spatula</dt><dd>Apr 27 2016, 04:38 PM</dd></dl><div>Let me just say... you don't want to do that.[/quote]That is exactly what I want.

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Election Thread [Flaming Allowed] [If yOu don't support

Post by succotash_54 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:59 pm

<blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Siphai</dt><dd>Apr 29 2016, 08:46 PM</dd></dl><div><blockquote class='quote_blockquote'><dl><dt>Spatula</dt><dd>Apr 27 2016, 04:38 PM</dd></dl><div>Let me just say... you don't want to do that.[/quote]That is exactly what I want. [/quote]Well, yeah, as a European who will probably never live in the U.S. and would enjoy the smugness he'd feel as an outsider, yeah, you'd want that.

Just remember that what happens in the U.S. has a rippling effect throughout the world. Case in point, you know who the Kardashians are.

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